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What is the FULL purpose of a swinging drawbar anyway???

M

mike1972chev

Well-known Member
Hey guys,ME again.

I am in the process of making a "fine adjuster" for the swinging drawbar my Super M to help "tweak in" the draft on my #16 plow for plow day and was wondering: What is the FULL purpose of this thing? Is there a situation you would just EVER let it swing freely and NOT have it pinned solid?

I have not really used it for anything other than my 2" trailer ball and car trailer so far(pinned solid in the center position) and I was betting some of you "senior"/"more wiser" gentlemen on this forum could tell"novice" me ALL of the different uses,scenarios that the swinging effect helps in different implements and different situations? :)
 
Mike,
When I plowed with the H back in the 70's, I had a hillside hitch to adjust the drawbar position. I am in East Ohio and we have some hills. My farm had 53 ft Contour strips. So you go out one strip and back two strips up. I was constantly adjusting the position of the drawbar so that the first bottom would take the same "bite". With the old ford plows you ended up having to make an extra round or two on the strip you where throwing the furrows down hill.
Later I plowed with a 3 pt plow that had an adjustment in the hitch to make it plow straight.
Keith
 
simple ,lets you turn shorter without hitting implement with tractor tire.never heard of anyone adjusting the tractor to fit plow,thats sort of a trick.most folks adjust the plow to fit the tractor.
 
"never heard of anyone adjusting the tractor to fit plow,thats sort of a trick.most folks adjust the plow to fit the tractor."

It is done all the time. There are several reasons to adjust the point of pull on a tractor, one of which is to compensate for side draft on a hill. IH made Hillside hitches for tractors, just for that purpose, at least all the way back to the F-20's, maybe earlier.
 
Just my 2 cents,

But I think the thing is only good for unpinning, hooking up the implement and then pinning it back to center again.

Anyone who has ever operated a tractor for more than three feet in a field knows that letting that thing "swing" makes turning so much harder when in the field.

It lets that tongue come over to the tire quicker and just flat is dangerous because implements will "climb the tire" and land in your lap.

Allan
 
I grew up on "H"s and "M"s and when we pulled a drag disk no wheels or a harrow, Dad always let the draw bar fully swing.I still have the "H" and "M" that where my Dad"s
 
let me see.you actually believe swinging the drawbar on a tractor makes the plow turn right or left?you could hitch a properly setup plow twenty feet to the side of a tractor and it wouldnt pull right or left.maybe by doing this you are compensating for tire slippage on a really steep side hill?regardless of where your plow is hitched to the right or left if properly setup it will pull straight down the centerline of tractor.unless some one has figured out a way of moving center of draft on a plow i dont see how it could do otherwise.now if your tractor was slipping sideways on a steep hill i might believe off hitching to the side would change draft on tractor.i would have to think about that one,
 
Absolutely! Tried it on a Super M swinging freely pulling a disc one time years ago on the advice of an old timer who said it "will make turning on the ends easier". Didn't like it; pinned it straight ever since.
 
The Drawbar is loose to swing when appropriate, and pinned when needed. The important factor is that the point of pull (Belly Pin point) will actually favor the turn by pulling toward the side of the drawbar displacement because it is in front of the rear wheels.
Pulling a 4 section spike tooth drag with an Farmall H, using a ring and link chain style hitch to a 2" pipe main tube was a 20 hrs/yr task. The only time I ran the drag up on a tire was when my cousin pinned the drawbar, and the point of pull was forced to be centered behind the tractor. With it pinned the turning radius was 135'. With it free, the radius was about 45' (I could make a circle about 20 ' in diameter with the inside edge of the drag. (wheels were set mid axle dish out)
JimN
 
My dads H used all trailing implements except for a semimounted disk plow and rear cultivator. None had hydraulics meaning they were at working depth all the time. Allowing the drawbar to swing (we never locked it in place with trailing implements) allows the tractor to turn easier with less tire slippage.
 
Allan, you are usually correct, but you are wrong on that one. I have too many hours on an H and other tractors pulling trailing implements to believe that. As far as as hitting the tire, you just have to be careful turning. And it makes turning EASIER. We always used the drawbar that way. If you have hyd operated implements it makes little difference.
 
JackinOK,
What did they sell a HILLSIDE HITCH for then? On some of my slopes it would take a 6 inch change to keep the # 8 plow in the same track. (that's a 3 inch change from up slope to down slope vs flat land)
The Ford plows have a handle to change the pitch of the plow to adjust them.
High point on my farm is ~1400 ft Low is 1150.
Keith
 
(quoted from post at 12:47:53 09/27/11) let me see.you actually believe swinging the drawbar on a tractor makes the plow turn right or left?you could hitch a properly setup plow twenty feet to the side of a tractor and it wouldnt pull right or left.maybe by doing this you are compensating for tire slippage on a really steep side hill?regardless of where your plow is hitched to the right or left if properly setup it will pull straight down the centerline of tractor.unless some one has figured out a way of moving center of draft on a plow i dont see how it could do otherwise.now if your tractor was slipping sideways on a steep hill i might believe off hitching to the side would change draft on tractor.i would have to think about that one,
Click to expand...

I don't think that is accurate.
 
I use the swinging drawbar on a CaseIH 9370 Steiger as it allows the disc ripper to turn better on the end, and then will self center once I get straightened out again. Also used the swinging drawbar on the H growing up pulling the drag ahead of the planter which made it easier to turn. It was a very handy option to have.
 
I dont think anyone is saying THAT "jackinok".

What IS being said is you can adjust BOTH the swinging drawbar AND the plow hitch to adjust the draft!I am STILL learning this,but you could leave the drawbar centered and adjust the plow hitch to get it,or you could use both to get it?

If the draft was off it COULD pull right or left?
 
Yep, you could pull a spring tooth harrow (drag) or disk or cultipacker and drag or disk and having the drawbar free to swing was an advantage when turning. I always had the implement I was pulling have enough straight pull tongue before the diagonal part so it was very difficult if not impossible to get the chain or side brace into the tractor wheel. The swinging drawbar was nice too to offset the wagon when we were putting up loose hay with a hayloader so the narrow front tractor could "straddle" the windrow when loading up then we would center the drawbar to pull the load to the barn. Needless to say the swinging drawbar pulls from the best place on the Farmall tractors too, doesn't put a twisting pull on the axle housings like the loop drawbar does. All in all, swinging drawbars are a very good useful idea...on any make of tractor.
 
The swinging drawbar when you turn puts the center of side draft in front of the back axle, which helps pull the front of the tractor around. With solid pined drawbar, the side draft is 18 inches behind the back axle and it pulls the front end the opposite the way you are turning.
 
Most of our implements were mounted and then we had a 200 with a fixed drawbar. On tractors with a swinging drawbar we would pin the drawbar when pulling side feed implements like a bailer or corn picker to center it up better. If we were bailing and the wheels were out to cultivator width for 38" rows the right wheel would be into the windrow. Pining the drawbar all the way to the right would make it work.
 
totally agree with the easier, not harder. if you dont believe it then hook up to a 10ft drag disc. and make a few rounds using the pinned and unpinned method and you will planely see the difference.
 
Almost too many to mention. Outside of pulling tilling implements one huge help was to pull a wagon off to the side for unloading or getting close to what ever you were loading from. Those old flare wagons werent very wide so pulling wagon off to the side helped like unloading from combines auger as in those days they werent very long. Back when those were new farming was lots different than today for instance the B was used almost every day of the year and with the spreader off to the side made cleaning the hog floors easier to scoop the manure into the spreader also cleaning the hogs nest which was done three times a week whether it needed it or not we needed the matter on the fields just a few things where it was so handy.
 
Swinging the drawbar for plowing is not about draft. It's about getting the first bottom to take a full cut with the tractor's wheel in the furrow.

It's a "cheat," and not really the correct way to do it. For normal plowing, you would adjust the tread width on the tractor, and set the plow straight behind the centerline of the tractor.

It's an acceptable temporary solution when you've got a big tractor and a small plow, or you're just plowing a small garden, or you're on a side hill.
 
One of the reasons was to standardize the PTO demensions so that it would not cause problems with PTO driven implements when turning or crossing waterways. In respect to the telescoping of the sliding shafts.
 
(quoted from post at 09:46:10 09/28/11) One of the reasons was to standardize the PTO demensions . . .
Click to expand...
IH supplied hitch plates that bolt solidly to the drawbar to standardize the PTO dimensions. The swinging drawbars are usually shorter than the proper plate. Many people have used the swinging drawbar for this purpose and usually find it close enough. Whether it is close enough depends on the particular piece of equipment and field conditions.
 
We only used it unpinned when pulling the 4 section drag, otherwise its handy for hooking up wagons and such.
For picking corn and plowing I use this, as I like it to be more solid.
 

Picture
a50258.jpg
 
Allen,
You are full of common sense...most of the time. However, this is one of those times you are not. Your 2nd paragraph tells me you are possibly too young to have pulled a disk (with no wheels) with an H or M in a plowed field?? When you try to turn at the end (with the disk in the ground full time) and the disk hitch is pinned to the "U" shaped drawbar you will have fun trying to turn the tractor even while pushing the brake pedal to help you.

Then try the same thing with the disk pinned to the swinging drawbar (letting it swing freely) and you can turn much easier....you will still have to use the brake a little to help the tractor turn, but not nearly the brake pressure is needed.

Third scenario would be to hitch the disk to the swinging drawbar and then using pins to keep the swinging drawbar from swinging. THAT's what makes it exciting for you as you drive straight into the fence!

The whole thing is all about the point of pull:
1.The swinging drawbar is attached IN FRONT of the rear axle.
2. The "U" drawbar is attached BEHIND the axle.

When plowing or pulling any other implement with wheels then turning is so easy it really makes no difference how you hook it up.

I'm 74 and hard of hearing but it would be fun to hear those brakes on a H or M squeal like crazy as a novice tries to turn without using the swinging drawbar as it was intended for!

LA in WI
 
Sorry mkirsh,Maybe I used the wrong terminology there?But any movement of the drawbar or the plow hitch WOULD effect the draft,wouldnt it ????

I am doing what you said.I am adjusting the rears on my Super M to be fully narrow with wheels "dished out".

The hitch is adjustable on the #16.It should be REAL close.All I am doing is making an adjuster to"fine tune "the swinging drawbar! (Moving like ONLY an inch or 2 at the VERY most to get that first bottom as close as I can get it.)The swinging drawbar will never get too far from the center of the U bar!
 
Mike,
You have a lot of responses to your questionns.

With due respect to everyone here, looking at all the various opinions, I have a feeling most ideas of letting the swinging drawbar swing freely vs pinned while disking in plowed ground are based on age of the drivers.

Most of us "more mature" guys spent so many days on those old H and M Farmalls vs younger guys who have spent maybe hours on them.

However, I wish I was a "younger guy"; I could then turn my head easier to watch the implement behind me and I could more easily figure out this #$%^&* computer!

The worst thing is when your offspring leave the nest...no one is here to fix the electronic stuff. But the offspring can't plow worth a lick!

LA in WI
 
Thanks for all of the answers I am getting! I am really learning alot about what these tractors are capable of!!! I bet there are alot of guys of MY generation who do not really Know FULLY what these tractors are capable of?I was too young to have used one "first hand" like back in the day! (It was weird when I first saw an M "Cotton Picker",all REVERSED mounted!!!!)
 
I am 65 and all our equipment was pull type until wheeled type came out. We pulled a 12 ft. disk and a 25 ft. spring tooth drag pinned. I never had to get into the brakes on ends of field. I would lay the field out into lands and do the ends when done. I used the swing drawbar to hook up equipment thats not perfectly lined up.
 
MY opinion,and my experience,tractor is going across a steep hill,since uphill wheel is light at that point ,if it spun tractor would lose traction and slide down hill naturally.when that happened plow would turn downhill also taking less of a bite,Off-hitching to the uphill side takes care of tire slippage that occures even on level ground to some extent.to have a true hillside plow setup ,you would have to have one beam or series of beams on a multi bottom plow lift straight up.they couldnt lift just front or back.if you built a PLOW like that(tractor wouldnt work unless tires were larger on one side than the other) then center of draft on plow still would not change,simply because its still cutting the same depth on each beam.
if your running a trailer type plow all adjustments are made on the plow hitch to fit tractor,and for the most part this holds true for ALL plows.hitch height is most important because if its not set right on plow front beam will either try to pull up pulling plow out of ground,or down pulling back out of ground.its got to pull level while plowing to get all bottoms to work equally.next important adjustment is haveing the plow pull straight behind tractor right down the center of draft.draw a straight line down center of tractor ,ANY tractor, and this line is the center of draft( tires being the same, tread within reason, etc of course).swinging draw bar to one side or the other doesnt change this,tractor is still pulling down this exact line. to make a plow or any other implement track straight down this line youve got to make the hitch of implement straight down this line when its at work.since the center of draft on a moldboard plow is NOT in the exact center but offset some hitch ON PLOW, NOT tractor has to be offset.on a trailer plow this is normally done with that little bar angling in from the side of the hitch. that is what makes the center of pull (from tractor) and the center of draft( its resistance to this pull) line up straight.just a side note,ever wonder why a properly setup trailer plow will get to whipping on you when going down the pavement?simple, its not pulling straight,you have no pull or draft from moldboards on plow and its not tracking straight. once you have center of pull , and center of draft,in a exact line,it makes absolutly no difference where you offset plow,you could gang hitch 14 properly setup plows behind your tractor and every one will pull correctly.why? because as long as you pull off that drawbar which puts the center of pull down center of tractor.plow is still tracking straight down its center of draft. same rules apply to a mounted plow.turn or roll the drawbar to make center of draft down exact center of pull and your doing the exact same things as adjusting the hitch on that trailer plow.the only adjustment neccesary ever again once this is set.is to roll plow side ways when you drop tractor tire in furrow.but there again your adjusting plow to tractor,even if you use leveling link on tractor to adjust it.
 
JackinOK,
You took a while to compose all that.
You are right that the tractor and plow must be set up with the center of pull lined up with the center line of the plow. You can do that very easy on level ground.
As soon as you go across a sidehill all those adjustments are now out of wack. The wheel slipage thing you talked about does not apply as I am talking about a 2 bottom plow with the right tire in the furrow. It's not sliding anywhere. The geometry just changes. Gravity. When you come back the other way it changes the other way. The hillside hitch was the perfect way to make on the fly adjustments so that the first bottom would take the correct size bite.


My 240 acre farm has some nice flat areas but some of it is steep.
Keith
 
(quoted from post at 12:26:32 09/28/11)just a side note,ever wonder why a properly setup trailer plow will get to whipping on you when going down the pavement?simple, its not pulling straight,you have no pull or draft from moldboards on plow and its not tracking straight.
Click to expand...
I thought the plow whipping on pavement was for the same reason the wheels on a shopping cart do the same thing.
 
Throwed it into a bind didn't it? It makes the start of the turn easier but then you loose the geometry of your tractor and implement half way around the loop. I put the bolts back in lots of times when dad wasn't looking.
 
Maybe not everyone agrees, but I nearly always have the drawbar free to swing when using harrows, pulling other vehicles out of various predicaments, when ploughing and when pulling various objects with chains. It makes corners easier to handle and also cause the drawbar and towed object or chain to pull in a straight line from the drawbar pivot point to the point of attachment. This reduces any tendency for the rear wheels to be pulled sideways under heavy load.
SadFarmall
 
Interesting debate here. If you don't know what check row planting is or why it was done, then you probably won't understand or agree that a swinging drawbar has good purpose.

So, you younger whipper snappers want to comment on Check Row corn planting? :wink:


PS. Swinging drawbar and check row planting have nothing to do with each other except they had value during the same time period.
 
Respectfully sir,I have NO idea what that even is ????

It must involve the swinging drawbar being changed alot,I am guessing??? :)
 
Mike, I want to see what answers we get. They were not used or done together, and they didn't require each other.

However, my point is, that if you aren't old enough to know about check row planting and why it was done, then you won't appreciate the uses for a swinging draw bar. With todays modern tractors and implements, the swinging drawbar doesn't really have any use or value.

However, if you are using the F or letter series tractors, and the implements designed for them, you soon come to appreciate a swinging drawbar for certain applications.

Another "debate" and example is around mag's vs battery ignition and crank starting. FWIW, my mag tractors actually start better than my battery ones.....especially when the temp is down in the teen's. How many battery ignition tractor's do you know will fire and start within 1-2 revolutions at 10 degrees......all my mag tractors do.

Farm equipment has come a looooooooooooong way in the past 50 years and the reasons and use of the older equipment is lost on modern day farming techniques. to be honest, I would be lost trying to use today's equipment. So, let's see where this one goes!
 
Tom, THAT is the VERY reason I ask such questions like this one!!!! (This "thread" is coming "full circle"!)

I am always learning on here the ORIGINAL ways things were done in the past.

That is the whole reason I wanted to buy my trailng plow was because it was something that was gotten away from.
I think the reason that most guys my age and younger do not know how old implements work is that MOST of us focus on the old TRACTORS and NOT so much on uses of old implements because it seems to me MOST/alot of the implements have been "scrapped out" over the years due to NEWER technology.

There just seems to be MORE old tractors still around than the original implements they once used!

Cant wait for plow day.Been witing awhile now.It will be COOL!
 
I'm 73 and always left it unpinned. I think it depends on how deep you are going and how much power and traction you have. I also disked in lands. And with no hydraulics our H would have more and more difficulty turning as the soil got looser and looser on the ends. Also dependent on how wide you make the land. We also used what we called a "drag" (not at all like the one you had) to level the field for irrigated vegetables. Sort of a poor mans land plane. Made out of 2x6's or 8's, don't remember. Maybe 15-20 feet long or so with 4 cross pieces to move the soil. On turns you move soil to the side, thus increasing the resistance. The drag was heavily weighted and we often had excess wheel slippage when turning. Often had to shift down a gear. The loose drawbar helped a LOT in those situations, more so than the disk. Your statement about 12 ft disk and 25 ft harrow indicates that your tractors were bigger than hours. I drove mostly an H.
 
(quoted from post at 11:33:20 09/29/11) Tom, THAT is the VERY reason I ask such questions like this one!!!! (This "thread" is coming "full circle"!)

I am always learning on here the ORIGINAL ways things were done in the past.
Click to expand...
Which brings you back to my original response.
"The main purpose was to make turning easier with a heavy draft. Other uses are more or less incidental."

Some side hill plow hitches used the swinging drawbar but others were a complete stand-alone attachment. Thus I view the plow hitch use as incidental. A lot of old-timers would explain to you that if you needed the swinging drawbar to hook up equipment, it just meant you couldn't back up the tractor.
 
CNKS we farmed a sandy loam ground with some hills. We farmed with a 51 Farmall M and a 47 John Deere A. We kept them in good shape. Both had 14.9 -38's loaded with fluid and weight.Don't farm rent the ground out.Retired now and starting through 9 tractors that I have bought over the years.
 
Jim Becker,

You are very close in your reasoning about pull type plows whipping on pavement. The plow does act just like the swivel wheels on a shopping cart. (It's the tail wheel that is the culprit.)

A good friend told me that the next time I wanted to pull my #8 down the road I should just lower the whole plow until the moldboards are about 1" above the road....it changes the dynamics of the tail wheel assembly and the whipping will stop.

I tried that and now I can go down the road with my H in 5th gear, wide open even, and my plow does not whip around. The plow just follows along very nice and smooth no matter what speed I go.

But...if I forget to lower the plow, and leave it at my field settings, then hit the throttle and all pandemonium breaks loose!

For those who say they can't lower the plow that low because of entering field driveways and stuff...too bad but it doesn't change what I suggest needs to be done.

About those darned caster wheels on the grocery cart; they would stop swinging around if we could lower the assembly that the caster arms are hooked onto....nearly all caster wheels will swivel if they are constructed with caster arms too verticle.

Like I said earlier, I know pull type plows. I just don't know anything about all this modern stuff. If it ain't got a trip rope, I'm lost!

LA in WI
 
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