Clutch problem - Re-posted -

Goodman · Sep 14, 2011

Trying to narrow down the issue with my Super A clutch before it appears I will have to break apart this recently completed restoration.
Just to update - Installed New clutch, pressure plate, throughout bearing, pilot bushing, etc. All in adjustment as per spec but still getting power to transmission.
I Can start the engine in gear, clutch depressed, tractor never moved. Clutch engages great, no grabbing, no noise, but if I take it out of gear, with cluth down, immediately the shaft starts turning back to the transmission. Only way to put it back in gear is kill and restart in gear.
I sure hate to break apart if I don't have to and have narrowed down issue to clutch plate not sliding on spline of shaft or pilot bushing friction.
Can anyone tell me how much pressure plate should move and if clutch disc actually moves on the spline when clutch is depressed. I can see the spline and clutch disc and it doesn't appear to move at all. That would mean it stays in contact with flywheel. How much should it move?...1/16, 1/8"??

Bob · Sep 14, 2011

"How much should it move?...1/16, 1/8"??"

If all is well and straight and true, it needs to move VERY little to release, probably considerably less than 1/16".

Janicholson · Sep 14, 2011

I agree the disk hub will move, but only 1/2 the cushon spring relaxation amount. Max of .008 or so. Visible yes look carefully. Jim

Janicholson · Sep 14, 2011

Because you can see it (photo) you should be able to see the PP disk move rearward, freeing the disk. It should move nearly an eighth inch total. With the clutch blocked down fully, turn the engine and watch the disk for uniformity of free clearance. If it varies around the circumference as you watch, the disk is warped ! Jim

Curt Cooke · Sep 14, 2011

Just a thought. I once had the same problem though I was putting a different engine in the tractor. All new everything. I could not get the clutch to release to my satisfaction. I discovered that the pilot hole in the crankshaft was not drilled deep enough (it was a combine motor I put in a B Farmall) and the transmission input shaft was bottoming out in the end of the crank. It was not off by more than a few thousandths of an inch but enough to cause trouble. I resplit the tractor and ground just the slightest bit off the end of the input shaft. Problem solved.

Super-H-Mike · Sep 14, 2011

My thoughts also go towards bent disc or pilot damaged on re-assembly . Did it fight you going together? If so, maybe got bent or damaged then ? Can you get some lube to the splines for the disc? Is the pilot a bushing or bearing? If its a bushing, it may wear in fine with some use... If it was me, I d try using it some and see if it will come out of it on it s own, rather than split her again right away.

Goodman · Sep 14, 2011

I'm pretty sure disc isn't bent, due to smoothness of the clutch engaging.
As for the pilot BUSHING, I put the tractor together twice. Smooth both times, all the way together.

I'm like you, if it is the pilot, I've been running it some hoping to wear and gain some clearance.

Goodman · Sep 14, 2011

I have watched multiple times and can't notice any movement in the spline part of the disk. It is all greased and lubed up and I was hoping to see some movement even though I knew it would be minimal.

Goodman · Sep 14, 2011

The pressure plate moves about 1/4 of an inch, but the clutch on the spline doesn't appear to move at all. I have looked at the Pressure plate --engaging and disengaging all around the disk especially at the fingers, and it seems to be very consistent.

rustred · Sep 14, 2011

the splines on disc and shaft are to be installed dry. NO grease. if that grease flys into the disc and gets on flywheel or pressure plate surface it will act as your describing. ever have a leaking rear wheel seal on rear brakes? that oil on brakes makes wheel lock right up. same deal here on clutch.

gene bender · Sep 14, 2011

You didnt say how much free pedal you have that adjustment is made thru the access hole below the battery. Should have at least one inch just so the throwout bearing is not riding on the pressure plate.

Super-H-Mike · Sep 14, 2011

Agreed. But it would take a great deal of grease to fly up/out onto the friction surfaces and to affect it, and that motor spins relativly slowly anyways. I always put a small amount of lube on the splines for the disc to move freely, and it hasn t caused me any issues yet. But you are correct, too much is bad.

Janicholson · Sep 14, 2011

A new disk on the old splines will ride in a different spot on the splines (one that is not nearlyworn as much. I believe the disk is binding on the clutch shaft as it trys to make that transition from wear to new. There is no way to check that unless it is split. Jim

mike paulson · Sep 14, 2011

sounds like you might not have driven pilot bushing all the way home, was the tip of the trani shaft buggered up at all or was it nice and smooth.

Goodman · Sep 14, 2011

It has to be pilot bushing. With clutch depressed I can wiggle clutch disk back and forth on the spline easily about 1/4 inch. That rules spline issues out which was one of my original thoughts. I'm not happy about bushing but I think it is narrowed down.
Anyone want to guess how long it would take to wear clear?

I'm sure might as well break her open.
Thanks guys for all advice

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Anonymous-0 · Sep 14, 2011

Are you sure the clutch disc is not in backwards. And when I put a clutch in I always have flywheel edge turn down a few thousands.

mike paulson · Sep 14, 2011

it might break free or might not, i had to resplit one once and found that the trani shaft tip was scored(not sure what caused that)poss previous pilot bearing failure. now i always check to make sur the bushing will rotate smoothly on tip of trani shaft first.
also saw a friend not drive a bushing all the way home on a truck and the trani shaft shoulder actually contacted the the bushing...had to split that again also, uuuugh..
after starting the tractor in a higher gear clutch depressed as you discribed try popping the clutch and it might break free...

rhtx55 · Sep 14, 2011

The only thing short of splitting the tractor I can think of that MIGHT help is to "burnish" the clutch in.
Place the tranny in high gear, half throttle, stand on the brakes & slowly let out the clutch pedal, once you feel it start to grab hold the pedal in place for a few seconds, let out just a bit more until you hear the engine start to load, then release.
Do this a few times, then you will start to smell the clutch, shut it off & let it cool.
Some replacement clutch facings come a bit too thick and need a bit removed to cause it to release, this won't remove much.
See how it acts after this & let us know.

mikeintn · Sep 14, 2011

Dont burn your clutch up, wont fix it.

Clutch problem - Re-posted -

Goodman

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Bob

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Janicholson

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Curt Cooke

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Super-H-Mike

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Goodman

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gene bender

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