Farmall Super M Hydraulics

This post was edited by jtbartlett on 06/21/2021 at 04:30 pm.

When you want power to your Gresen, pull the Liftall lever back while operating the Gresen. The Liftall valve will stay there unless the hydraulics meets a heavy load. Or you can pull the lever back, rotate the locking clip on the reservoir, and not worry about the Liftall kicking out. You can run all day or all year like that.

The Liftall lever on the reservoir is single acting. Middle position is neutral, back is power, forward is to release any fluid in a cylinder via gravity down.

Yep, I always run triple valve banks on my Liftall live hydraulics. I have three tractors like that. That permits three circuits with pressure on either side of the piston in the hydraulic cylinders. Or forward and reverse in a hydraulic motor.

I should also add that the kickout of Liftall system is designed to protect the live pump and driving components. When it is locked open with the rotating lock tang, there is some possibility that those pump components and gear train could be stressed with an overload such as a deadhead when the hydraulic cylinder reaches the end of its stroke.

To counter that condition, the integral Gresen relief valve should be set at around 1200 PSI. It is probably set at the factory for 2000-2500 PSI. There are probably some people who don't bother to lower the remote valve pressure relief and get away with it. Chances are that their pumps internally leak enough so they cannot develop modern high pressures.

Thanks Wardner. I guess I'm not clear with the terms liftall and live power. This tractor (My first one) came from the factory with no liftall belly pump. Just a plate with the belly hook. The IH live power pump plumbs to under the gas tank. There is no obvious plumbing from the resevoir under the tank to the liftall resevoir. I'm not sure why the liftall kickout lever would connect to the live power resevoir since there's no liftall whatsoever. Does this control lever select 'all' hydraulics to the gresen valve bank?I'm assuming there's an 'all' or 'no' selector in the live power resevoir to the valves?

Also, on the left side of the resevoir there are 2 90 street elbows. I believe they are both returns however I only see the need to use one. Do people use the second return to plumb to the liftall resevoir when there is one to use?

Thanks a lot for the help. I'm learning a bit as I'm going through this.

IH should have retired the Liftall name when they changed from the transmission powered hydraulics to engine driven hydraulics. There is no commonality between the two systems. They didn't so it remains a source of confusion.

Live power refers to the later system as found on late SM and SMTA. Your tractor with the reservoir below the fuel tank will have no belly pump/reservoir combo. The pump is at the distributor/ignition location.

The Liftall actuating lever functions the same on both systems. They are both single acting and will not provide up and down pressure without an auxiliary valve like you are planning. Yep, for anything to happen, the Liftall lever has to be pulled back regardless of what valve is plumbed downstream.

The back plate on the later Liftall has three 1/2" NPT ports. I believe any of the three can be connected to the Gresen valve. I use the the top left port. There is one 3/4" (or is it 1", can't remember) port. That is the return when using an auxiliary valve supplied by an outside vendor . It is in the upper left side of the reservoir. I think its normal function is to check oil level.

If you have a belly reservoir and an undertank reservoir, your tractor has seen some alterations. Someone may have wanted greater reservoir capacity or two sources of hydraulic power. I built a H like that. Check to see if the transmission coutershaft extension still is in place to drive the belly pump if it has a belly pump/reservoir.

The 1953 Super M manual refers to both systems as Liftall. One is the transmission-driven Liftall (i.e. belly pump) and the other is the distributor-driven Liftall (i.e. live hydraulics).

We just call them "belly pump" and "live hydraulics" around here... No need to get so technical...

But yeah, in a nutshell, the stock live system worked exactly the same as the original belly pump: One-way hydraulics.

The main difference is you don't lose pressure when you push the clutch pedal. Adding two-way hydraulics is basically the same as on the belly pump... You need an open-center valve bank, with the OUT plumbed to one of the plugs in the rear of the block, and the IN plumbed to one of the pressure outlets in the casting that protrudes from the rear of the block.

Your system has some changes or I don't understand the discription.
Standard basic liftall on a SM with engine pump used a 1 inch hose with 1 inch pipe threads from reservoir under fuel tank to the pump inlet for suction. 3/4 hose with 3/4 pipe threads was used from pump to reservoir for pressure. Inside the reservoir is valves to pressure the 3 openings on rear of the reservoir and are operated by the lever on the side of unit. moving lever all the way to rear pressures the 3 ports. Moving lever forward lets fluid come back through the same ports to lower implement. Only pressure to one side of a hydraulic cylinder can be used with standard liftall unit. Also a relief valve is located inside the liftall unit to keep system from overpressure.
To operate double acting hydraulic cylinders IH installed a double acting valve at the fill pipe location of the original belley liftall. Valve doesn't go to anything below housing. You may have this and is confusing the discribtion of unit.
IH put a tee in the pressure line and tied other opening of the tee to double acting valve inlet. Also they put a tee in the suction line and return oil from the double acting valve was returned to the reservoir or suction of the pump.
Reason for teeing in to the pressure line was so the relief valve in the liftall would still protect the system when the double acting valve was used. When no levers are engaged the pump just pumps the oil in a circle with no or very little pressure. To use the double acting valve the liftall lever was locked to rear with the little latch. Then oil pressure just circle through the two way valve until it was used to pressure a cylinder. If the liftall lever wasn't latched and pressure deadheaded the pressure would still circle through the liftall without pressuring the 2 way valve. If the liftall unit was to be used the double acting valve had a latch on it to keep oil from passing through so pressure would build on cylinders operated by the liftall.
To use a double acting valve and retain the IH relief valve you can tee into the pressure line and lock lever back or use a opening on the back of reservoir with lever locked back. Return oil from 2 way valve can be tied into the suction line or to fill opening of the reservoir. Less problem with blowing oil out if connected to the suction line. Its close but a 1 inch tee can be installed at the liftall suction port. This is long and hope its understandable. You may have something different or something changed over the years from what I decribed.

Correct me if I am wrong Wardner.I believe the 2 pressure ports coming out of the reservoir on the left side(1/2" pipe) are staggered a little.When you are pulling the lift all control rod SLIGHTLY,you are getting pressure on ONE of those ports,when you pull the lift all rod MORE,you get BOTH ports coming on together.I believe for raising the front cultivators FIRST when coming out of the end of the row ??? NOT SURE???

First of all a few pictures would be nice. The next thing one tripple-spool will not be enough. I have a 1941 M that I can use up and down pressure on laoder boom and bucket dump and retract and also a grapple attatchment on loader bucket. The second three-spool controls three-point hitch, and it takes the other two valves to control up and down on the forklift-lift mast and the tilt of the forks when it is mounted on the three point hitch. Other three point attatchments as well also trailing implements. I have two Farmall 560"s with Fast hitches and loaders and came with three valve hydraulice and a M%M M-5 setup up the same way. All 3 of these tractors are getting extra valves install. Armand

Mike, IIRC, your decription of the actions of the hyds is right. But, got to remember that it's been close to 50 yrs since I cultivated with a Stagee II SM & 448 cultivator. I believe the settup worked similiarly when lowering the cultivator. Push the control lever in so far & the front cultivators dropped, push it all the way in & the rear gangs dropped. We later added a "secto-valve" so we could raise either right or left side of the front cultivators independently of each other or both in unison.

Thanks Joe,

I like learning new stuff about my Super M.The IH manuals get kinda vauge on some of the hydraulic functions.Sometimes it takes someone who has done it back in the day to tell ya !