Old 400 Im working on had a busted head that let water in a couple of cylinders. Tractor sat for a long while and pitted #4 sleeve pretty good, but the rest are good without even a ring grove. I had it running and had no smoke at all, but I've pulled the head after finding water in the pan. Ever just pulled out one sleeve? I can only find sleeves in sets of 4, but truly there is no need for a complete rebuild. I just don't want the pitting to eat the rings before their time. What do ya think?
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Tom Fleming
Well-known Member
well, these were originally designed to be able to replace 1 sleeve and piston if necessary. I don't see why not if you can get a matched set. Used would be fine also. Ask around, someone may be willing to sell a single.
(quoted from post at 12:04:03 08/14/11) Old 400 Im working on had a busted head that let water in a couple of cylinders. Tractor sat for a long while and pitted #4 sleeve pretty good, but the rest are good without even a ring grove. I had it running and had no smoke at all, but I've pulled the head after finding water in the pan. Ever just pulled out one sleeve? I can only find sleeves in sets of 4, but truly there is no need for a complete rebuild. I just don't want the pitting to eat the rings before their time. What do ya think?
You can buy a single sleeve and piston set, I can help you out if you let me know if it has stock bore 4" or overbore 4.125" pistons, and if they are the 4.125", are they flat top or domed pistons.
Edit I missread your post the first time, You can aslo buy just one sleeve a set of rings for one cylidner, but honestly it is cheaper to buy the "liner kit" for one Cylinder, with sleeve, piston, rings, and wrist pin.It's $20-$30 cheaper in most cases to buy the "liner kit" then to buy the sleeve and rings seperate.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
2 years ago i changed the cylinders in my 350, with the hassle of doing do, i found it to be more beneficial and time saving in the long run to change all four. Once you have yourself set up to pull the sleeves, doing one or four make a few minutes difference. However any realistic and reputable dealer should be able to sell you just a single sleeve/piston set. (the set i got had both rings, sleeve and new piston)
MANY years (probably about 1978) ago a neighbor who was REALLY short on cash had a fairly low hour Deere 4630 ruin a piston and score a sleeve and simply DIDN'T have the money for a complete OH.
His son, a few years younger than me (and still a good friend) was trying to get the crop in.
A machinist friend of mine had a couple of pistons and sleeves from an OH'ed engine that had only run a couple of hours before it came apart do to an error on the part of the "mechanic" that assembled it.
ANYHOW, we installed the one slightly used piston and sleeve and he got the crop put in. I REALLY got some "bad press" from wagging tongues who chastised for for doing such a thing. Funny part is, he got the crop in for his Dad.
The Dad lost the farm a couple of years latter and the son was able to get the tractor and pulled the HECK out of it for a number of years on a Wil-Rich airseeder and STILL uses it for odd jobs.
It is STILL running well at something like 11,000 hours.
So, SOMETIMES not doing things quite in textbook fashion DOES work!
His son, a few years younger than me (and still a good friend) was trying to get the crop in.
A machinist friend of mine had a couple of pistons and sleeves from an OH'ed engine that had only run a couple of hours before it came apart do to an error on the part of the "mechanic" that assembled it.
ANYHOW, we installed the one slightly used piston and sleeve and he got the crop put in. I REALLY got some "bad press" from wagging tongues who chastised for for doing such a thing. Funny part is, he got the crop in for his Dad.
The Dad lost the farm a couple of years latter and the son was able to get the tractor and pulled the HECK out of it for a number of years on a Wil-Rich airseeder and STILL uses it for odd jobs.
It is STILL running well at something like 11,000 hours.
So, SOMETIMES not doing things quite in textbook fashion DOES work!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Lots of times, too many to remember. Mostly field repairs on Cat equipment.
randy hall
Member
i can get you one new sleeve. i think i have a broken set on the shelf.
Tom Fleming
Well-known Member
People now adays seem to think, "all or nothing". These tractors were designed to do 1 cylinder or all. if the rest don't even have a ridge, why on God's earth remove them? Scrap 'em?!?!?!
Don't think so. I don't know about the rest of you, but I grew up with clean decent clothes on my back and plenty to eat........from the farm. Didn't have much more. We didn't rebuild the whole head if 1 valve broke. Yup, we lapped them while we were in there, but didn't replace all of them. if the other 3 cyls are in good shape, and not leaking coolant, don't muss with 'em. Put the 1 in and be done with it.
Don't think so. I don't know about the rest of you, but I grew up with clean decent clothes on my back and plenty to eat........from the farm. Didn't have much more. We didn't rebuild the whole head if 1 valve broke. Yup, we lapped them while we were in there, but didn't replace all of them. if the other 3 cyls are in good shape, and not leaking coolant, don't muss with 'em. Put the 1 in and be done with it.
Dean Olson
Well-known Member
I'm part of the all or nothing crowd, now.
Dad and Granddad would only replace what was needed. Seemed we where always working on something and always broke down. I never remember all tractors running at the same time growing up. They,we kept at least 2-3 tractors more than what we would have needed if complete repairs had been done. I remember pulling an engine apart 4 times in 2 years only doing one cylinder at a time. Then a 5th time when it spun a bearing. I did a full out of tractor rebuild as part of high school shop class. That tractor ran perfect till it was sold 20 years later.
Like I said I do completer repairs now, but I'm financially a lot better off than we were then.
Dad and Granddad would only replace what was needed. Seemed we where always working on something and always broke down. I never remember all tractors running at the same time growing up. They,we kept at least 2-3 tractors more than what we would have needed if complete repairs had been done. I remember pulling an engine apart 4 times in 2 years only doing one cylinder at a time. Then a 5th time when it spun a bearing. I did a full out of tractor rebuild as part of high school shop class. That tractor ran perfect till it was sold 20 years later.
Like I said I do completer repairs now, but I'm financially a lot better off than we were then.
tractorsam
Well-known Member
It depends on what you're going to use it for but you can get away with an awful lot in an engine like that. If you've got the extra money kicking around or it's going to be your primary tractor and see 3000 hours a year then I'd do all four. Otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to do just what it needs. I've got a Super MD with a couple of bad sleeves/pistons and a W450 D that needs a complete restoration and I'm going to take the best parts from both to make that MD run. Best of luck, Sam
soybeanjoe
Member
Are you going to be working ths tractor or is it for play? If working I'd probably replace all of them unless you know the condition of everything. I for play I'd only do the one hole.
A few years back I bought an M off a friend that was stuck. He had overhauled the engine about 10 yrs prior & parkd it in a corner of his shed & let it sit. After a few years he went to start it & the motor was stuck.
When I got into it I found the head was cracked but only had one cylinder froze up so I pulled the sleeve & piston out, dug the rings out & cleaned up the piston. Put a new sleeve in th one hole, honed the others & put new rings in the pistons & reinstalled them. Tractor runs like a top & doesn't use oil. About the only thing we use it for is unloadng bins in the winter.
IIRC I have less than $250 in the overhaul & that includes buying a used head for $50
A few years back I bought an M off a friend that was stuck. He had overhauled the engine about 10 yrs prior & parkd it in a corner of his shed & let it sit. After a few years he went to start it & the motor was stuck.
When I got into it I found the head was cracked but only had one cylinder froze up so I pulled the sleeve & piston out, dug the rings out & cleaned up the piston. Put a new sleeve in th one hole, honed the others & put new rings in the pistons & reinstalled them. Tractor runs like a top & doesn't use oil. About the only thing we use it for is unloadng bins in the winter.
IIRC I have less than $250 in the overhaul & that includes buying a used head for $50
armand tatro
Well-known Member
In "69 or "70 had a "65 Ford LTD. with a 351 v-8 got out of time and burned a hole in a piston. Replaced that 1 piston and rings and bearing with a new one that was a bit diferent on top but it still ran good for another 50 thousand miles. The 560D with the 282 engine blew the head gasket in "90 or "91. When we had the head off found a lot of play in # 6 cyl. Replaced that with a new liner kit and its still able to blow smoke on the snow blower. A friend of minehad a 7700 J. D. combine that the rod bolts came loose and put a hole thru the block with no damage to crank. Got a liner kit for that, bolted a patch with an epoxy gasket on the block the combine worked for another 10/12 years until a new owner had it and it caught fire and was totaled. So it is possible to do only one cylinder and have luck with the repair. Use it and enjoy!!! Armand
shoot me an email [email protected]. i think one and done will do me just fine.
I could swear I've seen individual pistons/sleeves sold somewhere. If I find it I'll post the link.
But either way - I'd definitely swap out one sleeve and not think twice about it.
If your objective is to save money, then stick to it and save money!
The only good justification for changing all of them is that if you're going to be in there anyway, you might as well do it all at once.
That's a very strong argument, but there's no avoiding the cost if you do it.
So if you don't want the cost, don't do it that way. (I'm assuming you're doing this work yourself and labor is free).
But - - - quite honestly, if your objective is to save money... I'm not sure why you're changing even ONE sleeve, just because of a little rust!
The worst thing that can happen is it'll wear out the rings faster than normal, and ... what?
If it does, you'll be right where you are now swapping them out anyway.
Why not just run it till it fails (IF it fails - and you may be very surprised at how long it actually lasts). You might push the cost down the road for several years.
If you do change it, just be sure get the right size. A lot of places push the oversized pistons. You want to match what's there to keep the whole crank in balance.
But either way - I'd definitely swap out one sleeve and not think twice about it.
If your objective is to save money, then stick to it and save money!
The only good justification for changing all of them is that if you're going to be in there anyway, you might as well do it all at once.
That's a very strong argument, but there's no avoiding the cost if you do it.
So if you don't want the cost, don't do it that way. (I'm assuming you're doing this work yourself and labor is free).
But - - - quite honestly, if your objective is to save money... I'm not sure why you're changing even ONE sleeve, just because of a little rust!
The worst thing that can happen is it'll wear out the rings faster than normal, and ... what?
If it does, you'll be right where you are now swapping them out anyway.
Why not just run it till it fails (IF it fails - and you may be very surprised at how long it actually lasts). You might push the cost down the road for several years.
If you do change it, just be sure get the right size. A lot of places push the oversized pistons. You want to match what's there to keep the whole crank in balance.
Midnightrider
Member
You can buy a single sleeve and piston from Yesterdays Tractors right here!
These folks have parts as well as a forum.
(quoted from post at 18:24:16 08/14/11) In "69 or "70 had a "65 Ford LTD. with a 351 v-8 got out of time and burned a hole in a piston. Replaced that 1 piston and rings and bearing with a new one that was a bit diferent on top but it still ran good for another 50 thousand miles. The 560D with the 282 engine blew the head gasket in "90 or "91. When we had the head off found a lot of play in # 6 cyl. Replaced that with a new liner kit and its still able to blow smoke on the snow blower. A friend of minehad a 7700 J. D. combine that the rod bolts came loose and put a hole thru the block with no damage to crank. Got a liner kit for that, bolted a patch with an epoxy gasket on the block the combine worked for another 10/12 years until a new owner had it and it caught fire and was totaled. So it is possible to do only one cylinder and have luck with the repair. Use it and enjoy!!! Armand
You forgot to mention the combine caught fire from the repair job giving way. :lol: Just kidding.
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