Super M hydraulic return line

fixerupper · Jul 29, 2011

My son's friend was asking me if it was possible to run a hydraulic spray pump from this tractor for a small fenceline spot sprayer. I said yes it can, but only till the oil gets hot, then he'll have to give it a rest.

Then he was asking where to put a return line as the tractor only has one hyd hose. I didn't have an answer for that cause I haven't been around many Farmalls. Tried to do some searching in the archives but didn't have any luck. I know this has been discussed before but it went "in one ear and out the other" when I read the posts. So the question is, where does the return line go to if he wants to run a hydraulic motor for a limited time? By the way, it's an original tractor. That's the factory paint. Thanks, Jim

rustyfarmall · Jul 29, 2011

The return line could be installed into the bottom of the pump, instead of the drain plug, but even better I think would be to install it right into the belly pump fill pipe by using a "tee" fitting so the filler cap is still useble. Very similar to the plumbing set-up for a McCormick #30 or #31 loader.

Bob M · Jul 29, 2011

Yours is a "Stage 1" (belly pump equipped) SM. Its hydraulic system was originally intended for one way (pressure lift/gravity drop) operation. A single hose to the cylinder serves as both the supply and return.

You CAN however use the system to operate a hyd motor. Take the supply from either of the front ports on the belly. Return should go to the pump filler neck, into tee added atop the filler pipe.

Keep in mind the stock pump does not have a lot of pressure/flow - 800 psi and I believe only about 4 gallons/minute. But properly connected (and not overloaded/dead headed) it should be able to power your motor continuously without overheating the oil.

---

Nice paint on the old girl! Looks like it's been well-cared for over its nearly 60 year lifetime!

Harold Evans · Jul 29, 2011

I have one of those loaders and still have the original filler
cap that has no 'T' added onto it. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the cylinders on my loader are the one way type, so the
return is sent back via the same hose as the supply, right?
With a motor, he'd need to set up a separate return hose as
you suggested, but it would be quite different from the
McCormick trip-bucket setup, wouldn't it? I'm not trying to
start an argument -- just trying to clarify so that I can better
understand how my tractor and its implements work.

fixerupper · Jul 29, 2011

Well thanks for the prompt answers. I had filler pipe in mind but it's best to first ask the ones who know. Jim

rustyfarmall · Jul 29, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:36:59 07/29/11) I have one of those loaders and still have the original filler
cap that has no 'T' added onto it. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but the cylinders on my loader are the one way type, so the
return is sent back via the same hose as the supply, right?
With a motor, he'd need to set up a separate return hose as
you suggested, but it would be quite different from the
McCormick trip-bucket setup, wouldn't it? I'm not trying to
start an argument -- just trying to clarify so that I can better
understand how my tractor and its implements work.

Yes, those cylinders are "one way" cylinders, BUT the front portion of the cylinders is used as an additional reservoir for hydraulic oil, and SHOULD have a hose attached that is then returned to the filler pipe, which does require the "tee" fitting. Actually, since there are 2 cylinders, with 2 hoses, you need a "cross", or 4 way fitting.

Harold Evans · Jul 29, 2011

Ah, now that's interesting. That explains why I once got
squirted with a bit of oil many years ago when I lifted the
bucket up quite high. Have you seen anyone install the
return lines that you describe. I might try to do this at some
point. The cylinders on my tractor don't leak enough to cause
any more squirting out the top holes, but some day they
might. The setup you describe would be a good solution.

rustyfarmall · Jul 29, 2011

(quoted from post at 12:28:39 07/29/11) Ah, now that's interesting. That explains why I once got
squirted with a bit of oil many years ago when I lifted the
bucket up quite high. Have you seen anyone install the
return lines that you describe. I might try to do this at some
point. The cylinders on my tractor don't leak enough to cause
any more squirting out the top holes, but some day they
might. The setup you describe would be a good solution.

Yes, that is how my loader is plumbed on my H, that is how the loader was plumbed on the H that my dad had, and that is how the manual directs it be done.

I took the hoses off mine once and installed a couple of those little breather plugs. I got squirted.

fixerupper · Jul 29, 2011

We had a Caswell loader that dad bought new in 1949. We used it until I believe 1971. If you aren't familiar with a Caswell, it was made in Cherokee Iowa and had a vertical cylinder in front of the nose of the tractor. Two chains went through pulleys on the top of the cylinder and down to the loader arms. It's the loader I grew up with as I was born in 51. Dad always had a gunny sack wrapped around the top of the cylinder. One day I took the unsightly old gunny sack off and the next time the loader was raised a little farther than normal I learned the hard way why the sack was on there. Had to scrub the oil off the front of the tractor after a new sack was wired back on. Jim

CNKS · Jul 29, 2011

This is not what you asked, but--Does he already have the pump and the sprayer? If not the easiest thing to do is to use a simple PTO roller pump. The hyd one would be longer lasting, but the roller pumps are cheap, particularly for a spot sprayer.

fixerupper · Jul 29, 2011

A roller pump is a good economical way for sure, but he already has the hyd driven pump. My fencerow spraying outfit is an old trailer type sprayer with a PTO shaft hooked to an Ace centrifugal pump. That way all of my old tractors can run it. Jim

rhtx55 · Jul 29, 2011

Rustyfarmall had it right, if he has any air in the oil kind of issues after running a while, replumb the return line to the drain fitting. Moving that much oil around sometimes causes air problems, with a loader or cylinder kind of operation it is fine , but with a motor pulling full time, the constant re-circulation may cause it to foam a bit.
Try it, if he has no problems leave it as is.

sflem849 · Jul 29, 2011

If you plumb it into the drain plug it would be like the modern day "zero pressure returns" that you have to run for hydraulic motors. ie variable rate seed drives, vaccum planters, etc

armand tatro · Jul 29, 2011

Before the return line returns to the hyd. tank you could make a simple oil cooler with pipe nipples and fittings and set in front of the radiator. Use as much steel line as you can instead of hoses because steel gets rid of heat faster than hoses and the cooler will maby add an extre gal. of oil capacity. Use kind of zig-zad pattern in front of the radiator. Any questions? Armand

scotc · Jul 30, 2011

If SM's were built in stages, mine is a hermaphrodite, belly pump with under-seat battery.

The "stages" were nothing more than using up the parts that were on the factory floor when they changed specs.

scotc · Jul 30, 2011

Used to be hydraulic oil coolers for 66/86 series on ebay for nothing. You could plumb something like that in.

fixerupper · Jul 30, 2011

Come to think of it, my Deere vac planter's vac motor is run by a PTO operated pump. The cooler just sticks up in the open air above the planter. Seems to do the job. Jim

sflem849 · Jul 30, 2011

(quoted from post at 05:04:16 07/30/11) If SM's were built in stages, mine is a hermaphrodite, belly pump with under-seat battery.

The "stages" were nothing more than using up the parts that were on the factory floor when they changed specs.

I'm sure nobody could have changed it in 58+ years. :lol: I've seen more than on 194X M with the under the seat battery. They are handier than the under tank setup. Why wouldn't you want one!?!

scotc · Jul 31, 2011

At work our JD vacuum planters have hydraulic fans. Stan's 12 row has a cooler on the fan outlet. My 16 row has 2, and is hooked to the 4840, and really needs coolers on it's fan return lines.

scotc · Jul 31, 2011

The trouble is, that's how my grandma bought it new back in late 52, it was an early model that was used for a demonstrator by the dealer.

M Diesel · Aug 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:32:48 07/29/11) Yours is a
Keep in mind the stock pump does not have a lot of pressure/flow - 800 psi and I believe only about 4 gallons/minute. But properly connected (and not overloaded/dead headed) it should be able to power your motor continuously without overheating the oil.

Basically 10 GPM at nominal load of 400 PSI, derating to 8 at 800 PSI. Not the tightest pump, but they do last.

As said returning at the bottom is nicer, the filler neck return is prone to foam problems.

Super M hydraulic return line

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