Need Help!

Ok folks been strugglin to get my 1950 Super A started. Here's the deal, unable to locate timing marks. Read the spot where they are supposed to be but unable to find. (Cleaned & cleaned) [b:de598362dd]Please give me options to try with out finding this mark.[/b:de598362dd]Here's what I've done....pulled out the plug of #1 cylinder and watched to see piston come to top, figuring that would be top of compression stroke. Then taking and making sure rotor is pointing to #1 cylinder on cap tried to spin it over. Not getting anything.
I pulled the mag last night and I know I have spark from mag. I did notice that I can put mag on with cylinder at top of stroke just prior to it clicking and it is still pointing to #1 cylinder. Am I in the ballpark? Please help but talk basic stuff.... I have had to mag out good spark....new plugs, new condenser...just not getting her to fire....badly want this to run soon...

Are you [u:2bd54374e2]sure[/u:2bd54374e2] you are at the top of the "compression" stroke, or could it be the exhaust stroke?

Try this link, to this site, with details of how to
do it.
Post back if you still have trouble


http://www.ytmag.com/articles/artint7.htm

The mark on the flywheel is very obscure. Putting a straw into #1 (Front) plug hole (after having someone hand crank it slowly with your thumb over the hole to get it on compression) will tell you when it is very close to TDC.
The marks should be aligned or close at that point.
Wires are clockwise from 1:30, around to 10:30 1342. Good luck, Jim

The flywheel and the timing mark will be at TDC at the end of either compression or exhaust stroke.
Are the valves stuck open?

When you get the piston close to TDC again, look for the mark on the flywheel. It will be in line with a bolt holding the pressure plate on. Use sandpaper & a good light. It is there!

Just because #1 is on TDC doesent mean its on the compression stroke. You need the valve cover off then you can tell if BOTH valves are closed. You just mite be 180deg out of time. Yes the rotor pointing is O.K. Try again just make sure its on compression.

I have a super A myself, and I've looked for those %)!(*#$ timing marks for hours myself. I swear mine simply does not have them, though everybody tells me "just look harder".

I'm convinced that some day I'm going to find out that it's all a big joke. Like some kind of initiation into the farmall world. "ha ha ha, a new guy, tell him to look for the timing marks!".

I know this doesn't help fix your problem, but it may help you rest assured that you're not crazy.

Forget looking for the marks. Just do as the other posters here have said - find TDC through the spark plub hole.

Being sure you're on the compression stroke, and not the exhaust stroke is the most important part.

After re-reading this question, I get the feeling a further explanation might be in order -

I apologize if I'm being TOO basic - but I have seen very knowledgeable people get confused by the 4 stroke cycle. Especially if they work mostly on 2 stroke engines.

Remember what's going on for each "cycle" (the piston coming up and down twice)

1.) intake valve opens, piston moves down drawing in air/gas
2.) valves close, piston moves up compressing air/gas (compression stroke)
3.) plug fires, piston moves down (power stroke)
4.) exhaust valve opens, piston moves up pushing exhaust gasses out

Repeat until field is plowed.

So remember, the only time you want the plug to fire is right at the top of the compression stroke. And the only time you'll feel compression building in a cylinder is during the compression stroke.

Again - sorry for the overly basic engine 101 stuff, I don't mean to insult.

But it can really help to repeat it in your head as you're hand cranking the engine trying to find TDC of the compression stroke.

And I know how easy it can be to forget this basic stuff when you get to rely on timing marks all the time!

Just to add, #1 is the front cylinder nearest the radiator. I agree with others, you timed it on TDC exhaust stroke. Dont worry about the marks just set #1 TDC compression, and point the mag the right direction and install. if everything else is right, itll be timed.

When i split one to do anything i will find those marks and paint them white then i can find them when timing those that have a dist. The Mags cannot be timed just TDC and they do their thing when the engine starts. I have a couple of mags that as soon as the impulse clicks the engine runs. Those mags i have taken apart and cleaned the rotor and field of grease and other crud and it sure helps starting. I found a manual for those mags and it has helped.

Those mags are slotted so they can be rotated to impulse fire at TDC.

The timing marks are there. Put #1 on TDC on the compression stroke. Take a light and clean off the area underneath -- they will be there. If you have it on TDC, you don't need the marks anyway. I suppose the possibility exists that you have an aftermarket flwheel that is not marked. But it's kind of hard to wear out a flywheel.

Every time the piston comes up, it will either be the exhaust stroke or the compression stroke.

On the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve will be open, and you will thus feel no pressure at the spark plug hole.

On the compression stroke, both valves will be closed, thus all the air must come out the plug hole, and you will FEEL that pressure as the engine is turned, assuring you that you are getting to TDC on the correct stroke for the spark.

TDC on that correct stroke can be found via Mr. Nicholson"s method.

Re: feeling the pressure... I used a circle of inner-tube rubber big enough that it wouldn"t fall through the plug hole, and put my finger over it to make a reasonable seal. It was obvious when I was on the compression stroke.

If you feel no pressure on either stroke, then you have other problems.

Remove the sparkplug near the radiator and hold your thumb over the plug while a helper hand cranks the engine. Once you feel pressure against your thumb drop a long plastic straw on top of the piston. Have the helper to keep slowly cranking the engine as you watch the straw rise. When it quits rising you should be at TDC on the compression stroke. Both valves should be closed.

Then remove the cap and then look at the rotor to see where its pointing. It should be at the No1 plug tower which is around 1 o'clock. If its off you need to pull the mag and rotate the rotor so it's at the No1 plug tower. Your wires need to be in this firing on the cap:

2-1
4-3 As the rotor rotates CW. Hal

If you have been trying to start it for some time
with no luck it may be dried out and need some oil
squirted in each cylinder to get some compression.

I hear ya - but I've done all that. Believe me, once I couldn't find the mark, I became DETERMINED to find it.

I realize I don't really need the mark, but it got personal. But try as I might, I could never find them.

There WAS a very big mouse/rat nest in the housing when I got the tractor, along with a lot of "toys" the mouse brought in with him.

The best I can think of is that after years of rubbing against all this mess, maybe it just sort of sanded the flywheel down enough to hide the marks???

Pretty weak I know - but it's all I've got.

Those marks are not on my flywheel!!!

The only timing marks you'll find are on the bottom of the flywheel and the half moon that covers the bottom section of the torque tube right below the rear of the motor. When those two marks are aligned, the motor is at top dead center on #1 and #4, and can be used to time either a magneto or a battery ignition.
At the front end of the torque tube/bell housing, on the underside will be a hole, sometimes round, usually a racetrack oval, that may or may not have a cover over it. Looking up and forward through that hole you are looking at the underside of the flywheel.
This next step works better if you have a hand crank to turn the motor with. Bring the motor as close as you can to TDC on the compression stroke of #1. To get there, pull your #1 spark plug. Stick your finger in the plug hole and have someone turn the motor until you feel your finger being forced out by the pressure underneath it. This will confirm that you are coming up on the compression stroke. Then slow down the cranking and watch through the hole for the piston to come up near the top of the cylinder. Pause before it is all the way to the top and find something to use as an indicator. By that I mean something like a thin screwdriver or a stiff piece of wire. Something that will fit in through the plug hole far enough to rest on top of the far side of the piston, and heavy enough on the piston side to rest there even as the piston moves, but long enough that it a) won't fall in and b) you can see the part that remains outside the motor well. Then slowly turn the motor. As the piston rises, this little lever that you are using will be lifted on the inside. Since it is resting on the bottom of the plug hole, the outside end will move downward. When it stops moving downward you are within a degree or two of TDC. A lot of folks stop right there and set their timing without worrying about the marks back at the fly wheel. If you should crank a little past and the outside of your indicator should start to rise, meaning you've turned past TDC and the piston is now falling on the combustion stroke, you can usually use the fan belt to turn the pulley back the other way to bring it back up top without having to turn the motor over completely twice to get back to the same spot.
Now you can go back to that hole under the torque tube. What you are looking for on the flywheel is a straight line cut/scored/stamped running the full depth of the flywheel, fore-and aft. It should be very near the bottom with the motor set up as you just did. Problem is that IH didn't put a whole lot of gumption into making this mark, it's not very deep, and it doesn't take much in the way of the kind of crud that gathers back in there (rust, dust, oil and chaff) to obscure it and make it the very devil to find. It can sometimes help to remove that half-moon cover just to get more light up in there to aid in finding it. You can scrape or scuff at it with something like a Scotch-brite through the hole or from the front (with the cover off) to try to find it. If you ever see one all cleaned up, it is also stamped T-C and 1-4 on either side of the mark. If you find it, I suggest you clean up at least the front end of it and mark it with some bright paint.
What that lines up with when you are at TDC is a mark on that half moon cover. Those came in two types through that era and you could have either. My '51 SuperC, it's a piece of stamped steel. Part of the stamping is a line that will be at exactly six o'clock when the cover is bolted back into place. That rib is what the mark on the flywheel lines up with. My '47 BN the cover is cast, and the mark is a fin-like rib on the inside of the casting in that same six o'clock position. Whichever you have, it couldn't hurt to dress up the mark on the cover with a little bright paint, too.
If you can find those marks and mark them, then all that's needed to time things up is to pull the #1 plug and stick your finger in it while the motor is turned to make sure you are on the compression stroke and turn until the two marks are aligned, and proceed with the instructions for timing whichever type ignition you have.
HTH

Shouldn't need saying, but...

Be DAMN sure the engine can't fire while you're hand cranking, and turning it back and forth using the fan belt!

After working on a tractor trying to get it started, it can be easy to forget you have the kill switch open, etc.

If you just remove all your plugs, it's much easier to hand crank, and infinitely safer!

like I said before, that mark is lined up with a clutch bolt.

Thanks to all, I really appreaciate all the tips. Mr JR Sutton never feel you've been to basic, if someone take offense then they really don't want the help. Everyone has been great. I will pull the valve cover off so I can see what's happening and hopefully I'm just off 180 degrees and I'm on the exhaust stroke.

Keep watching everyone, I will let you all know when she runs....

Thanks again.