H brake questions; please help me fix Grandpa's tractor

Hello All,
While searching for information and parts to help my Uncle fix my Grandpa's Farmall H I found this site and thought it would be a good place to ask a few questions! My Uncle runs the family farm which today is mostly just a hobby farm, farming for the sake of carrying on with that way of life. Back when my grandfather was still living (before I was born) he sold milk and was also a butcher and store owner in my small town. Now the herd is down to around 30 animals, all purebred Milking Shorthorns! A lot of the farm equipment is the same that my Grandfather used, some of it is pretty tired though! We have three tractors, all IHC, an A, an H, and a newer tractor that I can't remember the number of. We still do hay with an old 50's vintage New Holland Hayliner, my job is to stack bales on the wagon of course!

Of all the tractors, the H is by far in the worst shape. Unfortunately I think my Uncle can be a little hard on equipment and I don't think he does much maintenance but those tractors keep running!

I was drafted to help on this project because of my internet skills to gather parts and information. I don't know a lot about mechanics, so please humor me!

The brakes on the H have not worked for some time, long enough to warrant my Uncle to get around to fixing them. He isn't exactly a mechanic by any means, which is kind of why I am here!

From the information I have read here, and looking at the tractor, here are the things we want to do:


1: Replace the seals behind the brake drums
2: Get new brake bands
3: Get new covers, or at least the right side cover, as that is rusted out.

Please keep in mind this is going to be a work tractor if that makes a difference!

Questions relating to item #1:

I've found the seals for sale, and read that we can use either one or two per side, I think we are leaning towards two. Will that be ok, and I take it they go in flush?

My Uncle got the old seal out of one side, but it looks to me like the outside lining of it is still in the hole. Before we go ripping anything out, is that the case?

Pic of brake (copy and paste, I can't post pics directly as a new user)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/jma5000/IMG_4277.jpg

Questions relating to item #2:

Where can we get good brake bands? I have read about having them relined, but honestly I don't know of any place around and the right band looks pretty rusted out. I have also read that some of the aftermarket bands don't fit right, so I'd appreciate a reliable source.

Question relating to item #3.
Brake pan covers seem to be scarce, anyone got a source?


I think that wraps up my questions for now, I am sure I will have more as we progress. Any advice you may have would definitely be appreciated!

From everything I've read so far, working on these old tractors looks to be an interesting hobby and I'd like to learn more about it. Lately I've been thinking maybe some day I'll have the chance to restore the family H to its former glory

Our 1946 Farmall H (copy and paste, I can't post pics directly as a new user)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/jma5000/IMG_4275.jpg

In regard to question #3 I have brake cover pans and would be
happy to sell you one for $10 plus postage. I have not done the
seals, but if they are like other H seals there are two old seals held
together in a metal ring and when you replace them the metal ring
has to come out too. The new seals go in separately one after the
other.
Zach

They made over 350,000 Farmall H tractors, usually several in any given salvage yard of any size. Finding parts should not be a major issue. I'm surprised.

If Zach's doesn't work out for you on the pans, try Wengers of Myerstown, or JP tractor salvage, or steel wheel ranch.

The seal does have an outer metal part. If you didn't get that out, it's still in there. Original seals are about double the thickness of what you'll get at the dealer today. One modern seal is adequate and will be easier to remove down the road.

On the brake bands, look for a shop that rebuilds clutches to get your originals relined. Have them use clutch liner instead of brake liner.

All the new bands are made by the same Chinese factory, so they will all have the poor fit issue. HOWEVER, it's been a couple of years since I've read a complaint about the brake band fit. They used to pop up all the time. Take a look at the messages you're finding and see how old they are.

Yes, part of the seal is still in there. DON'T TAKE THOSE SIX(?) BOLTS OUT AND USE THE THREADED HOLES!!! You WILL break things. There is a couple hours worth of work before you can do that. I would start on the top and fold the edge in. It should be easy enough to get out after that.

Some guys have had good luck drilling a hole and screwing a screw into the seal. Then you can use a hammer or pry bar and pry on the screw to get the seal out.

If you use two seals put a little grease between the two seals or there is no way for the outer one to see any lubrication and it will score the shaft and you will be better off without it.

Thank you gentlemen for all the advice! We'll work on getting the rest of that seal out plus the other side now. It sounds like maybe we will just put one seal on each side, I am going to order those today!

I'll ask my Uncle about finding a shop that does clutch work that could reline the bands. I think the steel on of them may be a little too far gone though, I need to get a better look at it I think.

Zach- I think we may have found some covers but I don't know their condition yet, if it doesn't work out I will definitely contact you!

One thing I wanted to ask, my Uncle tells me there is a difference between the right cover and the left cover, is that correct? I've found pans listed for sale but they don't specify for which side, making me think that maybe they are both the same?

Both sides are the same in the way that both wings of an airplane
are the same, but you still need to have the left one on the left and
the right one on the right for best results.
Zach

Don't they have drain holes in the bottoms? I would think it would be a bad idea to make the bottom turn into the top.

(quoted from post at 18:06:12 07/15/11) Both sides are the same in the way that both wings of an airplane
are the same, but you still need to have the left one on the left and
the right one on the right for best results.
Zach

Click to expand...

The brake covers are mirror images of each other and will NOT interchange. There IS a right and a left.

Got the new brake bands, seals, and covers installed. Thanks for all your help!

My next question is about brake pedal return springs. I am confused because I have seen two lengths advertised. 6 inch and a longer one:

http://nebraskacowman.ecrater.com/p/5200592/farmall-h-m-brake-pedal-return-spring

http://nebraskacowman.ecrater.com/p/5200550/brake-pedal-return-spring-farmall-h-m

Which would be correct for our 1946 H? I am guessing the longer spring because that's the most common length I see for sale, but I'd like to ask the experts!

Also, my Uncle says it needs a new muffler, anyone got a good source that they would share?

On the muffler, wait until Christmas time and Carter & Gruenwald will be producing accurate reproductions again. They will be JUST like Mark's Tractors mufflers.

Not sure about the spring. My H is about the same age and IIRC it has the long springs. There is probably a serial number brake. I would go to the CNH website and use the online parts lookup to find the serial number brake.

On the muffler, wait until Christmas time and Carter & Gruenwald will be producing accurate reproductions again. They will be JUST like Mark's Tractors mufflers.

Not sure about the spring. My H is about the same age and IIRC it has the long springs. There is probably a serial number brake. I would go to the CNH website and use the online parts lookup to find the serial number brake.