Well Ive been up and down the hydraulic system in my Farmall 460 but still havnt found a solution to hydraulic system heating up and not working after a while. I have cleaned and checked all the valves and screens and anything else I could find and I cant find anything wrong. But once the tractor has been used for about an hour the hydrauics get hot and begin to whine louder and louder and it sounds like its coming from the pump. The rear fasthitch begings to raise and drop and then it hits a point where it stays pressurized constantly and strains the engine to keep the fast hitch up. Im fairly certain at this point that the pump is bad. I think whats happening is the pump is bypassing around the worn gears and it works until it heats up the oil so much that the thinned oil cant be pushed by the worn gears (or worn housing around the gears)... Does that sound logical? If so what does everyone recommend for a pump. I know that there are 12GPM and 17GPM pumps but I would like to go bigger if possible. Any suggestions? Thanks!
- Thread starter Matt1983
- Start date
My guess would be for some reason the pressure releif valve or waht ever dumps the pressure on the system isn't dumping the pressure after a while dead heading or running at high pressure it heats up and it's all down hill from then. It doesn't make sense that it doesn't whine when you start out, it should make more noise when it can develop pressure
Wayne from Wi
Member
Your pump is fine. If it was bad it wouldn't be making pressure(heat). You have a pressure regulator valve sticking or possibly a remote valve/fast hitch valve stuck on pressure. Wayne
Alright well if its not the pump and it is a valve, how can I pinpoint where the valve is? How many valves are there that can cause this and where are they located? I've done everything that I've seen in the technical book and a few things I found here online but I cant figure out where else I might have missed...I guess Im just stuck... Like the stupid relief valve is lol.
The pump makes a slight whine when its cold but I have heard other 460's and 560's that sound the same. But then after an hour or so the whining gets louder. That's when it starts to raise and drop anything hydraulic. For instance when I first start the machine I can raise and lower the wheel harrow fine, but after an hour it wont even raise up anymore. I can also feel that the platform gets really hot where my feet are. Again Ive gone through all the valves and cleaned then and found no rust and the tiny screen was clean and not collapsed. I'm open to any suggestions but I just figure it must be the pump at this point. I have not gotten the pressure reading from the pump which I hope to do before replacing the pump, but Id still like to know what the best pump to buy for it is.... Its the Cessna pump I know that much....
Moondoggie
Member
If you have the valves which can be switched from single to double action, make sure they are switched completely to one or the other. If they're not, the hydraulics will heat up rapidly.
I have checked the 1 way/2way knobs and they are lined up and still have there roll pins in place. Maybe I can try switching them back and forth a few times to see if that cleans anything up in the valves...?? If the problem is with the fast hitch cylinder or a valve with the fast hitch Teladepth valve, would the problem go away if I disconnected the fast hitch where it comes out from under the seat pedestal and blocked it off and put on a solid draw bar instead of the fast hitch. It may not solve the actual problem but I've been considering running a solid draw bar anyway... Any thoughts?
First off, what condition is the orfice and screen . Was it plugged, collapsed when you first took it apart. Does it have a roll pin in orfice with a check ball in it. Check these things first or did you replace the orfice with a new one. Then you can start thinking about two other things as you seem to have checked the single to double actions controls on valves. Those teledepth valves wear at the control land and allow too much flow , more than what can go through the orfice. A bad check valve on the hitch cyl can give you a jumping hitch and cause it to not center properly also. More than a few teledepth valves have been replaced with a regular touch control valve and forget the follow up linkage, and no, you cannot unhook unless you put a lock out plate on the teledepth valve. Seems to be a plague with these 4 and 560 tractors on here lately running on high pressure. Having a gauge on the pump pressure port to see what pressure is actually being developed sure helps diagnose a problem. Also, a good understanding of how this system operates is explained in the 300 and 400 hydraulic service manual. It doesn't cover teledepth but shows how it all comes together. No other manual that I am familiar with does as good a job of laying it out in black and white.
The little ball inside that valve with the pin holding it in place is still in place and clean and there is no rust. I spent a lot of time cleaning this area with carb and choke cleaner. Everything came out nice and clean and there is no sign of wear anywhere in that valve. I even sprayed carb cleaner through one of the orifices that runs through the little opening where the ball is and I lightly pushed the ball in place with a screwdriver and the ball stopped the flow of carb cleaner completely. So I know its working and has a decent seat to it also. I figure its got to be somewhere else in the system then. As for the fast hitch raising and dropping. When the tractor first starts it doesn't hiccup or jump at all, and I have made all the adjustments so it doesn't top out or bottom out on a load. It works perfect until 1 hr in when it begins to hiccup and then within 15 minutes its on full strain 
Have you removed the check valve under the seat & went through it? Check the bore for wear. Replace all orings. Also make lure the hitch cyl is in good condition. If the piston oring is bad the hitch will not stay up. Make sure the hosed from the cyl to the check block are in the right ports, as you stand behind the tractor the inside hose on the cyl goes to the top port on the check valve.
As for the orfice with the screen and check ball, get rid of the ball or replace the orfice screen with a new one. Also drilling out the orfice with a wire drill the next size will help compensate for wear on the valve spool. Make sure your follow up linkage is tight and properly adjusted. The pin one the end of the left end of the rock shaft will wear and make the follower linkage loose so can"t adjust it properly.
As for the orfice with the screen and check ball, get rid of the ball or replace the orfice screen with a new one. Also drilling out the orfice with a wire drill the next size will help compensate for wear on the valve spool. Make sure your follow up linkage is tight and properly adjusted. The pin one the end of the left end of the rock shaft will wear and make the follower linkage loose so can"t adjust it properly.
The reason I asked if it had the little ball is that they peen the hole partially shut and you no longer have a .031 orfice hole which is minimun you must have. Those seats are hardened on the ball type and hard to drill out to proper size. I have done it but it is hard on my little drill set. Do not put the ball back in. That was something IH tried as that valve lays on it's side whereas on the older tractors it stood straight up and down. The check ball did not work as intended and causes more problems. You may just have to get a new orfice. I have drilled many, many orfices over size over the last 50 years or so to compensate for wear and tolerences. It is a tricky job and you have to go a little bit at a time, best to watch your gauge and see it goes on demand quickly and off demand quickly when done properly. You need wire gauge drills that are number sized and go up only a couple thousands at a time. Do not use regular drills bits in 64/th sizes or it is toast right now. Don't be afraid to try drilling orfice, can only ruin it and it apparently is no good now anyway. The check valve under seat is always a good place to check out when having any hitch problems also.
I will give removing the ball and re-drilling the hole a shot. I really hope that works since I assume I will need to remove the valve to do that work on it. (I dont remember exactly what it looks like but I think i left the roll pin there because I couldnt access a side of it to drive it out without removing the valve) Ill let you know when I get to try that out and Ill let you know if it works...Do you know which number wire drill bit I will be needing to get the .031 orifice hole opening?
I have seen that article you posted. It was very helpful in disassembling parts of the hydraulic system but after cleaning I found nothing. I am planning to remove the little check ball next time and drill the hole larger. I'm hoping to get to that next week. Thanks to all and wish me luck! Also please don't hesitate to post anything else you might come up with, at this point I'm skeptical that anything will work to fix the problem :/
Hey quick question for everyone... On the back of the seat stand on the 460 there are 4 ports that hydraulic fluid can come out of. Which ones should my fast hitch be hooked into? (picture example The two far left ones (left viewing from the rear of the machine) or the next ones to the right? And does it matter? If they are hooked up wrong/ differently would that cause my system to be on demand all the time?
The two far left ones (left viewing from the rear of the machine) or the next ones to the right? And does it matter? If they are hooked up wrong/ differently would that cause my system to be on demand all the time?The hoses go to the ports that are closest togather up and down. Inside hose from cyl to top port, outside cyl hose to lower port. The two ports farther apart up & down are the block on the end of the hyd pipe from the valve. If you hook to them you are not on the check valve. Hitch will leak down & keep the system on high pressure.
So are the hoses hooked up correctly in this picture? I found this pic on the web but it is the same as how mine are hooked up. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chatstractors.com/2007_farmall/1356_farmall_560_diesel_rear.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.chatstractors.com/1356_Farmall_460_diesel_tractor.htm&usg=__e10nh9I_3AxKmkllzU-Nq6lclN8=&h=560&w=640&sz=91&hl=en&start=96&sig2=lL3qp5F4wT8FXZ475e35bA&zoom=0&tbnid=KzALOwkiD2QnTM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=137&ei=coMjTs6BCeH10gHo1Ny-Aw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfarmall%2B560%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D709%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=410&page=5&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:96&tx=67&ty=71&biw=1280&bih=709
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