Need advice on Farmall A

Hi, great forum here btw, lots of excellent advice from friendly folks.

I"m hoping for some guidance for a young couple who are just getting started in farming and who bought a Farmall A that unfortunately has some problems. They apparently jumped into buying the tractor without the benefit of having a mechanic check it out, and they also didn"t realize the significance of the lack of hydraulics, and were surprised that there seems to be few implements available for it.

It has a nice paint job, though, sheet metal in very good shape, starts easily, actually runs fairly well (except for the clouds of steam from rad after not running too long) and seems in pretty good shape overall. Electrical system seems in very good shape, and tires good. Very good oil pressure.

After the problems with the tractor became obvious, they contacted the seller about returning it, but he isn"t having any of it. They paid $2000.

They now have a case of buyers remorse and are looking to sell the tractor and get as much money out of it as they can.

The most obvious problem is that there is a significant leak from the radiator, near the top. There"s no way to continue running the tractor since it spits out most of its water before long. That would seem an obvious fix - take it to a radiator shop to be soldered. Am I missing anything on that?

Also, the cap fits very loosely on the radiator and doesn"t seal at all. Is it important to replace it?

A bigger concern is the results of a compression test I just ran for them. Dry compression numbers are, from front to back: 80, 88, 92, 97. From what I"ve read here, the normal range is 90 to 120, is that correct?

Wet compression numbers (after adding oil) seem to show that the rings are the main problem; again from front to back: 105, 105, 100, 101.

The plugs don"t look too bad and don"t show signs of head gasket troubles. They all show rich mixture, and the front cyl is passing some oil, but not too much.

Oh, and the Marvel Schebler carb is leaking fuel from the main bowl/body joint. I couldn"t see any signs of a gasket there, so that could be the problem (duh). They said the seller claimed the carb had been "rebuilt" recently, but I"m thinking the seller"s word is something less than trustworthy.

So a few questions, besides the advice on the rad leak and cap:

1. Are the front cyls are bad enough that they require replacement of sleeves and pistons/rings before the tractor can be worked? How much should they expect to pay to have that work done in Connecticut?

2. About how much would the tractor be worth as is vs after new sleeves/pistons and fixed radiator?

3. Is it possible/practical to add hydraulics? Cost of that if doable?

Thanks very much for any help.

Well Eric, from what you have described, they got shafted. Best priced on a fully restored, working, all correct Farmall A without hydraulics MIGHT be what they paid for it, but that is really pushing it. Closer to around $1600 +/-. To repair or replace what you have listed, and to do it correctly, you will have at least $750 + in it, and that is if you do all the work yourself.

Everyone at one time or another has bought something for WAY more than it is worth. Ususally, you don't get your money back. BTW, if they truly feel that the tractor was mis-reprented, and if the seller is laughing his way to the bank, they might be able to file a claim in small claims court. MAYBE. Local district magistrates don't usually take kindly to sheisters taking advantage of unknowing buyers.

For $2000, they could have gotten a decent Super C or an H or an M with work life left in it. Then they would have had hydraulics and a number of other good features. At the price they paid, if it had a plow, sickle mower, disk, etc. then the price would have been ok.

There are implements out there for the plain Jane A, you just have to look for them. As far as adding hydraulics, it depends upon whether or not the block has the opening for the pump.

I hate to say this, but the only way they may come close to getting their money back is to part out the whole tractor. If there are good parts on it, especially rubber, they may get close to covering their "loss".

of course, this is all IMHO. Others will weigh in, I am sure.

Here is a case of un informed people buying something they know nothing about. Now they want someone to pay bottom line buyer beware. If they biught a Farmall A to farm with just what were they going to farm. The A will plow disc plant and do lots of things. How did they farm when the tractor was new. Bad deal all over.

From what you describe, they are already upside-down in their purchase. Now the question becomes, is it more reasonable to repair this one or look for another. My thoughts are this...

If it needs engine work, roll it for what you can get out of it. The radiator sounds to be the biggest fault. The cap needs to be seated properly to properly cool. New ones are cheap. Though I am not sure about your radiator itself. It sounds like you may need a shop to do some work. The compression numbers sound a little low but the main thing is to look for 10% difference at the most between the cylinders. If its been sitting for awhile, it may change after its been run. I'm gonna take a guess and say the engine has been run cold for most of its life. I would get a bore light and take a look inside the plug holes. You are looking for scratches, scored cylinder walls and pits.
Carb kits are about 30 bucks and that work can be done in their garage.

Either way, the money paid exceeds the value of what its actually worth in good condition. Now its about how much do they want to put into it if any.

From what I have seen in sw wisconsin. An A with a great paint job, great mechanical condition and correct will bring a min of $2000. More if you have a woods mower or plow with it. I paid $1200 for a 1940 A with perfect sheet metal, Engine was seized but not bad, I got it loose and running and it puts out 20 hp with cast flat tops. When I inspected this tractor, it was clear that it had not done hardly any work. It came with a woods mower, original 1 bottom plow and original cultivators. It has a brush paint job and I have been offered $3000 for it.

(quoted from post at 20:55:16 06/30/11) From what I have seen in sw wisconsin. An A with a great paint job, great mechanical condition and correct will bring a min of $2000. More if you have a woods mower or plow with it. I paid $1200 for a 1940 A with perfect sheet metal, Engine was seized but not bad, I got it loose and running and it puts out 20 hp with cast flat tops. When I inspected this tractor, it was clear that it had not done hardly any work. It came with a woods mower, original 1 bottom plow and original cultivators. It has a brush paint job and I have been offered $3000 for it.

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Stuart,

You better snatch that guys arm off for $3,000 if he wants that A. Take the money and go buy you a nice Super A (WITH HYDRAULICS) or maybe a 140 which is even better (smother steering, deluxe seat, newer condition which yeilds quieter trans and tighter steering most of the time). Although you might have to pay and few more $$ for the 140, either way it is MUCH better than the standard "A".

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to offer your thoughts. It looks as though the price they paid would have been on the high side for a tractor in good condition, and that it would take probably a thousand or more to pay someone to fix the motor & rad. I tend to agree with Dave"s suggestion for the owners to sell it for what they can get. It sounds like they will be lucky to get $1000 for it as is. That"s unfortunate; an expensive lesson, but as Tom mentioned, most of us have had the unpleasant experience of paying too much for something, or being taken. The owners have a good attitude about it, and are ruefully taking it as a lesson. Losing at least a thousand is gonna hurt, tho.

There is a local mechanic who works a lot with vintage tractors, and I"ve been trying to reach him to see what if anything he might be able to do for them. If he can buy it from them as is, that would seem the be the best outcome. I don"t have a place to do the work, nor the tools and experience to replace cyl sleeves, or I would try to do it myself.

If anyone has any other thoughts or suggestions, I"ll be happy to pass them on.

Again, many thanks.

I live in CT where abouts are you maybe I can help give me a call 203-206-9698

THe radiator cap is supposed to be a slosh retainer, not a seal, it is open to the atmosphere and should be. It is a thermo siphon system and if ofer filled (like a modern car radiator) it will puke coolant and steam until it is at the correct level. (about 2.5 inches below the neck) If the coolant is covering the core with 1/2" to 3/4" it will be fine. Run it for a while with less in it to see if it is OK. There is no water pump, it circulates from density change cool radiator. hot engine. They work fine!!. If the block is filled with sediment and scale, or the radiator tubes are plugged badly, it will overheat. A radiator flush with vinegar, and removal of the water jacket plate to clean the block is about as far as needed.
The hydraulics can be added with a pump mounted to the front (if it has battery start), or a belt driven pump added to the front of the engine. These take engineering skill but are possible.
Leave the engine alone those numbers are OK.
It is not a Kubota, or other new tractor, and they didn't pay close to those prices for it.
So should they keep it. Not if they expect it to be a Kubota. Yes if they need a powerful limited pulling device, or are willing to have it upgraded to function as needed. Jim

(quoted from post at 11:16:05 06/30/11)

(quoted from post at 20:55:16 06/30/11) From what I have seen in sw wisconsin. An A with a great paint job, great mechanical condition and correct will bring a min of $2000. More if you have a woods mower or plow with it. I paid $1200 for a 1940 A with perfect sheet metal, Engine was seized but not bad, I got it loose and running and it puts out 20 hp with cast flat tops. When I inspected this tractor, it was clear that it had not done hardly any work. It came with a woods mower, original 1 bottom plow and original cultivators. It has a brush paint job and I have been offered $3000 for it.

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Stuart,

You better snatch that guys arm off for $3,000 if he wants that A. Take the money and go buy you a nice Super A (WITH HYDRAULICS) or maybe a 140 which is even better (smother steering, deluxe seat, newer condition which yeilds quieter trans and tighter steering most of the time). Although you might have to pay and few more $$ for the 140, either way it is MUCH better than the standard "A".

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Well, if those prices are the normal price I will give away my B for only $900 here in Janesville. Pay me the full asking price and I will haul it to SW WI for free.

They should sell their A for as much as they can get, and buy a newer form of that tractor. A Super A, 100, 130, or a 140 would be great. They have hydraulics, and the 140 has almost twice the power of the A. 140s are very common, but they are still expensive. One in good condition with cultivators, fast hitch, plow, disc, fertilizer distributor, etc. will be close to $5000. I hope your friends get their tractor issues straightened out!

SF