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m block boring

L

lee oh

Member
i have a 40 m distillate im about to put a 450 high comp gas head on and am wondering if the old m block can take a 450 piston/ sleeve set
 
(quoted from post at 07:10:50 06/22/11) i have a 40 m distillate im about to put a 450 high comp gas head on and am wondering if the old m block can take a 450 piston/ sleeve set
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You will need to have the cylinders bored out to accept the 450 sleeves, and I doubt if there is enough meat in that block to go that big without breaking out into the water jacket. I might be wrong, but I don't think it will work.
 
I have seen an old M bust the block out with the thin wall 4 inch sleeves when they were rusted out behind. Wasn't all that thick, but machine shops have methods of determining thickness, don't know if they can tell the rust condition though.
 
(quoted from post at 11:47:48 06/22/11) so would the 400 kit work being its smaller
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The only sleeve that will work safely is the M overbore kit which has 4" pistons. Your M most likely already has the 4" pistons and sleeves.
 
No there is not enough room in a M block to bore and accept 450 sleeves, you WILL bust into a water jacket, don't ask me how i know. I would stay with the 4inch piston and sleeve.
 
I don't know if can go that big in your M because a 40 M was 248 cubic inches. But I put in IH fire crater 450 oversize sleeves & pistons in a 51 M with a 264 cubic inch block. They fit in perfect. These engines are dry sleeved. We had to put big jets in carb.It came with kit to rebuild distributor and had to set timing with a 22 degree advance.This work was done with the help of local IH dealer.
 
If you want 450 pistons pull the sleeves out take the block to the machine shop and have it power honed. The 450 pistons will run right in the block with no sleeves. Depending on how much you shave off the head and how much dome you have on your pistons you may need to get filler rings to keep the head gasket from blowing or get a copper head gasket. The disadvantage to this is you are wearing in block and basically making a thow away block after its wore out. The wear before the block is ruined will take thousands of hours.
 
If you run no sleeves You will be running on cast iron cylinder walls instead of steel. Life of that engine would be very short. Also with cost of a good machine it would be more than sleeves & pistons.
 
I have a 51 M with 450 sleeves in it. It can be done. It is correct that there isn't much metal left after boring the block for the sleeves, but a lot of that depends on the condition of your block to begin with. There is an engine builder nearby that regularly puts 450 sleeves in M blocks. I have even seen them break through to the water jacket slightly, but when the sleeves are set, this isn't a big issue either. I say go for it!
 
Tc2 Did you have to bore yours to get 450 sleeves in it? I put in IH 450 fire crater oversize pistons & sleeves and did not have to bore block. Mine had the 264 block in it.
 
(quoted from post at 06:20:48 06/23/11) Tc2 Did you have to bore yours to get 450 sleeves in it? I put in IH 450 fire crater oversize pistons & sleeves and did not have to bore block. Mine had the 264 block in it.
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That 264 block is not original to a Farmall M.
 
Mine was an original 248 block, and yes, it had to be bored. What you describe confuses me a little because even though I have never actually messed with a Super M block (264), I thought it had to be bored as well to accomodate 450 sleeves. I have been told that there is less likelihood of compromising the block with a 264, but I would say that a big part of that is the fact that 264 blocks are going to be newer, and less corroded than a 248 that could possibly be nearly 20 years older.
 
Ok, I stand corrected, apparently a Super M block (264) will accept 450 sleeves without boring. I had been told otherwise. Sorry.
 
Tc2 We bought our M when it was 4 years old.By all the numbers on it it was a very late 1951 model.In the mid 60's I over hauled it with the help of the IH dealer we bought it from. It did have a 264 in it. The IH 450 over size fire crater pistons & sleeves fit the 264 block with no machining.I did have to make changes to distributor & carburetor and advance the timing. I just sold it 6 months ago and bought a newer tractor with live pto & hydraulic.
 
Out of curiosity, do you have the serial number of your 51 handy? Mine is 259171 if I remember correctly. I was just curious if they were close.
 
TC2 I had to do some digging to find the numbers. I sold it 6 months ago. The numbers I found on service manual are(FBK-M 222968X1).Dealer told us that it was a late 51 but numbers makes it a mid year 50. It did have 264 in it. When I sold it the kit had been in the tractor for 35 years and ran good and used no oil. I replaced it with a 1958 450 with the 281 it with live pto & hydraulic.
 
Ive asked the same question a on here before and told if you have a good M 248 ci block it will work. Good block as in no rust in water jacket and no core shift. I sure hope it works I already bought my pistons 4.125" and sleave kit for a Super M.
 
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