Farmall 130 block for Super A: Pics included

I finally found a block that looks great. It has been magnafluxed from top to bottom with no cracks.

Quick question: Will everything from my 251069 R1 block fit the 366204 R1 block with no issues? I know that I need to get another radiator, water pump, and thermostat for the 130 block, but It looks to me everything else will fit just fine.

Any thoughts?

Here's the new block after it had been magnafluxed for cracks. I love threads with pics.

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That block has the larger holes for the bottom end of the sleeves. I believe your old block takes the small ones. You need to use a sleeve and piston set for that block. I know of no other problems using parts from the old block. I don't see the main bearing caps on the 130 block. You need to use the original bearing caps in the original locations.

You do not need to change the radiator or add a water pump. Just use the Super A water inlet and outlet. Be sure to use a head gasket for an engine without a water pump. A 130 engine gasket set will have the wrong head gasket for use without a water pump.

Looks like Daniel H. and I were posting at the same time. At least we agreed!

Not sure why you need another radiator? The correct 130 radiator will not work with your Super A grill. The 130 center section is taller for the larger radiator. You could set up up thermo-siphon like the Super A was and probably be fine. Just make sure you get the correct head gasket, there is one for with a water pump and one for without.

I think the sleeves will be different for the 130 block.

I thought when IH went to the 123 version that they started using a water pump like the later Super A's and on. I guess I would go with a thermosiphon, but I just thought that with the larger displacement that a better cooling system was required.

I guess if I wanted to I put a water pump on it and use a radiator like the later model Super A's. Thermosiphon might be just fine, but I have a hard time understanding how it can be adequate.

I told the machine shop that the block was from a 130 so they could order the right sleeves. Unless I tell them otherwise they are going to use a headgasket for a 130.

Thanks for the heads up.

(quoted from post at 07:47:18 06/21/11) . I don't see the main bearing caps on the 130 block. You need to use the original bearing caps in the original locations.

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It's my understanding that they are going to regrind and polish the crank. I may not have a firm grasp of what that means, but won't that require a new set of bearing caps?

As Jim mentioned, you MUST use the ORIGINAL bearing caps that are matched to the block. If you do not use the bearing caps matched to the block, then you need to have the replacement bearing caps line bored in the block.

(quoted from post at 08:39:11 06/21/11) As Jim mentioned, you MUST use the ORIGINAL bearing caps that are matched to the block. If you do not use the bearing caps matched to the block, then you need to have the replacement bearing caps line bored in the block.

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I don't have the bearing caps for the 366204 R1 block. What will the machine shop need for me to get them so that they can line bore replacement bearing caps for the block? I don't know what line bore is, but If I understand correctly then the bearing caps off my cracked 251069 R1 block cannot be line bored to fit the 366204 R1 block.

I can't figure out WHY the machine shop even bothered to magnaflux the block if you don't have the main caps????

Line-boring the block with non-matched caps installed will likely cost as much or more than finding another block. Not to mention timing gear mesh issues if the line-boring project does not turn out 100% perfect.

Might help to make sure we have our terminology straight.

There are bearings and there are bearing caps. The bearing caps mate up to the connecting rods (in the case of rod bearing) or to the crankcase (in the case of main bearings) and serve the purpose of holding the two halves of each bearing in place around the crankshaft.

Turning and polishing a crank will require new bearings of the appropriate interior diameter. Their outside diameter will the the same, so that the same bearing caps will hold them in place. (Another way to look at it is that if a crank has been turned down, the bearings will be thicker, the outer diameter being the same, the inner being smaller.)

So . . . if you actually have the original bearing caps for your block, simply have the shop that turned the crank order new bearings to match the diameter they turned it down to, and you're set to go.

If you do not have the original bearing caps, then it's a whole other matter. Any replacement caps you find that will bolt up will have to be line bored along with the block. What that does is machine things out so that the circles formed by the cap and block are on center (in a straight line) and of the correct diameter for your bearings. It's a critical step, and is why the original caps are numbered for each cylinder, and that the number goes to the side with the cam -- it's to keep those circles round and hold your bearings in a straight line.

(quoted from post at 09:56:28 06/21/11) I can't figure out WHY the machine shop even bothered to magnaflux the block if you don't have the main caps????

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They didn't. I just called the machine shop and they said that they take the bearing caps off when they clean the block. That's why they were not in the pics. He said they would have called me and given me a "no go" if that was the case.

So you DO have the original caps then, hopefully MARKED to prevent any installation errors?

Once they polish it if that's all it needs and doesn't require to be ground undersize have the shop to furnish the correct insert bearings. If it needs to ground have them furnish the correct bearings and use the old bearing caps if the bearing caps haven't had a spun bearing.

If the 130 uses the same sleeves as the Super C
they should measure 7-1/32" in length and measure 3.4375" at the seal. Hal

My 1951 Super A has the 123 block without a water pump. There are (were) sleeves to give 113 CI in the 123 block. My point on the radiator was your Super A grill will not fit a 130 radiator; it will be too short. The gas tank will have to be raised as well for the 130 radiator to fit. Better off in my humble opinion to stick with the termo-siphon and avoid the headaches. Be sure to use the right head gasket.

I kind of have the same problem. I just bought a Farmall Super A (1952 tractor serial and 1952 engine serial). It has the water pump and taller radiator. I am guessing that the engine is from a Super C since the serial numbers vary in range greatly, however still match to a 1952. My problem is that the Super A grill will be too short for it to look right. My uncle called me yesterday and said that he was just going to swap the taller radiator for a shorter "Super A" one so it would fit right. Will it be ok to do that?? I actually want to just get the top & center peice from a Super C grille and install my lower peice to it, so we actually don't change the radiator from what it is supposed to be. I'm pretty sure the Super C grill will work perfect when I install my lower peice to it.

What do you guys think? Should he put the smaller radiator on it? My luck, he probably already has.......

The top and center on the Super C grill is the same. Only the bottom section is different. You can buy the center section for a Super C new, but they are around $400. Be aware that changing the radiator will involve changing the water outlets on the engine (at least the top one) as the angle is wrong for the shorter radiator and I assume the front radiator support mounting is in a different location, too.

(quoted from post at 19:16:15 06/23/11) My 1951 Super A has the 123 block without a water pump. There are (were) sleeves to give 113 CI in the 123 block. My point on the radiator was your Super A grill will not fit a 130 radiator; it will be too short. The gas tank will have to be raised as well for the 130 radiator to fit. Better off in my humble opinion to stick with the termo-siphon and avoid the headaches. Be sure to use the right head gasket.

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I wasn't thinking about using a 130 radiator, but I was thinking about using a water pump and getting a later model Super A radiator that was made for water pumps. Especially since I have bigger displacement and it seems to me that most of the 123 engines had water pumps.