Starting M in 5th.

NDS · Jun 6, 2011

After our disscussion on starting M off in 5th gear I got my 1940 M out to see if my old mans memory was playing tricks on me. There must be a lot of sickly Ms out there as mine will start out on HARD FLAT surface from idle using clutch no different than you would when plowing, at little over idle I can dump clutch and it will pick it up and go. Tried it in flat grassy area and at little over idle it will start using clutch no different than I have for last 200K miles on my Nissan Frontier.

Allen if you are ever in North Alabama drop by and I will demonstrate it for you.

Yooper Farmall · Jun 6, 2011

I agree, it had been 25 years since I had spent much time on a Farmall H or Farmall 300. I had just purchased and started working on my '41 H and posted a question. I had rebuilt the engine, distributor, and carb and was surprised that I had to ride the clutch so much and surprised how much the engine protested starting out in 5th. I vaguely remembered starting out in 4th gear with a fully loaded 115 bail hay wagon and shifting to 5th. Many said you cannot pull a full hay wagon with an H, but somehow we did all summer; hauled them 3 miles back and forth on pavement.
To make a short story long, after valve adjustment, timing adjustments, carb adjustments, a replacement govenor and a new coil I can now take off in 5th gear easy. The engine doesn't sputter or protest at all. I might ease out the clutch a little more slowly than I would my Silverado, but not much. The engine digs in, runs smoothly and the muffler has a great low growl tone, but no missing.

Yooper Farmall · Jun 6, 2011

I will also add that while tuning up the engine and making all the adjustments, ast some point, I also replaced the rims and tires and went from tires full of chloride to tires full of air

Yooper Farmall · Jun 6, 2011

Variables:
Engine, carb, distrubutor rebuild.
No wheel weights
Calcium chloride tire balast removed
Low compression distillate head
High Compression pistons
Distributior upgrade

Roger in Iowa · Jun 6, 2011

Are there different ratios used for 5th gear? How fast will yours go in 5th, wide open down the road?

My WR9 will run about 24mph in 5th. Will not start a load in 5th. 18.4x34's not loaded but with three weights each wheel.

RAW in · Jun 6, 2011

Without a load it should be easy, even with an H. Actually works better at low throttle than wide open as some try to do. My cub will take offf in high at just above idle. With a load behind it can be a different story. Start in 4th and then shift to high.

Athol Carr · Jun 6, 2011

In the Farmall H and M and similarly in the W-4 and W-6, 5th gear ratio is 1:1, i.e. straight through as the gearbox output shaft is directly clutched into the gearbox input shaft. The lay-shaft is just revolving without any load unless the pto or hydraulic pump is being used. The only reduction is in the bevel drive and the final bull gears and as far as I am aware were always the same. The W series had a different bevel ratio from the Farmalls.

Allan in NE · Jun 7, 2011

Of course you "can".

But, why in the world would anyone treat a machine like that?

Allan

NDS · Jun 7, 2011

Please explain what you mean???? Why would anyone want to grind tractor into 5th (as most do) when you can start off in 5th with no more strain on clutch than any other use of clutch????

Chadd · Jun 7, 2011

If it is done properly (shifting in motion from 4th to 5th), there shouldn't be much grinding involved...

Sure any M or W6 in good shape can start in 5th under no load, but why lug the engine way down and put all of the stress on the clutch trying to accelerate a load from zero to 18mph in high gear, when you could progressively step up from a lower ratio to a higher one while keeping the engine in the powerband?

Oh, and regarding the moving shift not being in the owners manual... It also mentions that high altitude pistons should never be installed in low altitude tractor, the engine governor should never be tampered with for the purpose of increasing rpm or power, and only IH brand parts will ensure the continued efficiency of your tractor. I would view the "rules" in the owners manual as more like guidelines than actual rules. Every owners manual is written by someone who is desperately trying to minimize his/her and their employer's risk of being sued or subject to massive warranty recalls due to operator negligence or misuse. It only takes a couple badly failed attempts to rack up a few very big dollar signs...

NDS · Jun 7, 2011

How about a compromise you and Allen do it your way and I will do as have for last 60+ years with no clutch problems.

Chadd · Jun 7, 2011

Yep, if your way has been working for you, by all means keep doing it. Just pointed out why people do the 4th to 5th shuffle. One thing worth mentioning is that you tested it with no load on the tractor. Try doing the same test with a loaded bale wagon and a square baler behind and for giggles add an uphill grade. Unless it has domed or oversized pistons (Our W6 doesn't), I doubt it will pull it off without significant riding of the clutch. But again, you know your tractor's abilities better than I do.

Matt (NEIA) · Jun 8, 2011

when i was younger and dad would send me to the elevator to get 4 tons of cracked corn in the ole barge box i'd take the M, I always started it in 4th and would then just press in the clutch for about 4 seconds and put it in 5th gear. It never grinded much after i mastered it. It would take off however in 5th unloaded on flat surface, that also took some mastering though! lol

dej(Jed) · Jun 8, 2011

Don't you guys have work to do..............Why on earth would this ever come up as a discussion item. I double clutch my old M. LOL some peoples kids these days.......

NDS · Jun 8, 2011

I will drink to that.

mkirsch · Jun 8, 2011

Hey NDS, you started this round!

But yeah, we've always started in 5th from a dead stop at the end of the driveway with the Super M and 560. We could even do it with a hay rake or empty wagon in tow.

We don't have the 560 anymore but the Super M is still here with the same clutch disk Dad put in it 22 years ago, and the same pressure plate that was put in it... God only knows when.

I could never get the double-clutch to work. I did figure out how to powershift the 560 from 4th to 5th with no grinding gears, which was kinda cool.

My Super H, on the other hand, will not hold 5th gear because someone ground it off trying to transition from 4th to 5th because they could never get the double-clutching down.

charles todd · Jun 9, 2011

(quoted from post at 14:41:59 06/06/11) Are there different ratios used for 5th gear? How fast will yours go in 5th, wide open down the road?

My WR9 will run about 24mph in 5th. Will not start a load in 5th. 18.4x34's not loaded but with three weights each wheel.

I'm in the same boat. My Farmall 504 diesel is about the fastest tractor I have ever driven. With stock 12.4x38 rears it would do +20 mph. It has 14.9x38's on it now (has for the past 30 years). The governor works fine under a load, but can be revved to +3000 rpm (???). In 5th it will do over 30 mph. It protests from 4th to 5th. I start in 4th, clutch and pull T/A back, shift to 5th, then once it catches up, T/A back to direct. Even 5th T/A to direct will load it down some.

I do have a loader, weights, and fluid in the tires. Could account for some of the lag, but no more than a hay wagon. Its just geared tall in 5th and FAST.

CT

IH fan · Jun 9, 2011

(quoted from post at 08:39:33 06/07/11) Of course you "can".

But, why in the world would anyone treat a machine like that?

Allan

I agree... why abuse it? I have driven some tractors that are not easy to shift into high when rolling, but there is always a way to do it once you figure it out. Most are not hard. One of the worst was the Super 55 Oliver I had... it had 2 neutrals in the shift pattern and going from one side to to the other it would grind.

Starting M in 5th.

NDS

Member

Yooper Farmall

Member

Yooper Farmall

Member

Yooper Farmall

Member

Roger in Iowa

Well-known Member

RAW in

Member

Athol Carr

Member

Allan in NE

Well-known Member

NDS

Member

Chadd

Member

NDS

Member

Chadd

Member

Matt (NEIA)

Member

dej(Jed)

Well-known Member

NDS

Member

mkirsch

Well-known Member

charles todd

Well-known Member

IH fan

Well-known Member

Similar threads