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Return line on belly pump system

S

sflem849

Well-known Member
My neighbor is insisting that he needs to hook up both hoses on his manure spreader end gate when he hooks it to his newly aquired M. I told him it wasn't necessary, but after 3 days of fighting him I finally gave in. I told him to plumb the return line into a T on the belly pumps fill hole.
Will this do anything? Will it do anything negative? Will it do anything positive?
 
The system is made for single acting cylinders, so it will just suck the
cylinder full of oil out of the sump when it retracts, then blow it back
when extended.
 
Dave is correct. It could need to have more fluid to compenste for the fluid displaced to the far end of the cylinder. It also lubricates the cylinder better. But you are correct in your position. Jim
 
If you put the return on the top, wouldn't it just suck air after it emptied the first time? Maybe the place to go is the drain plug at the bottom?
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:18 04/28/11) Dave is correct. It could need to have more fluid to compenste for the fluid displaced to the far end of the cylinder. It also lubricates the cylinder better. But you are correct in your position. Jim
Click to expand...

I understand single acting vs double acting, but there came a point when it just wasn't worth fighting him anymore.
I wondered about going to the bottom, but didn't like the hose location. What he really needs is the spool valve, but he doesn't want to spend another $100 on the tractor.

It would lubricate the cylinder better without a hose hooked up? How is that?

Wouldn't the fluid still back flow through the pressure side? The other hose should just be there for looks.
 
I am withdrawing my former comment. It does not matter if it goes on the top or bottom, the cylinder will have air on that side if it is open anyway.

It can return to the top
 
Your friend who is insisting that the top hose needs to be hooked up is correct.

Manure spreader endgates need down pressure to hold them closed. Wet sloppy manure will cause the gate to float up and open if it's only hooked up to a one-way system.

Your friend is still misguided, though.

Just humor him. Hook the second hose to the fill pipe.

When the spreader gate won't stay closed, maybe you can explain the difference between one-way and two-way again, and he'll understand.
 
(quoted from post at 05:13:42 04/29/11) Your friend who is insisting that the top hose needs to be hooked up is correct.

Manure spreader endgates need down pressure to hold them closed. Wet sloppy manure will cause the gate to float up and open if it's only hooked up to a one-way system.

Your friend is still misguided, though.

Just humor him. Hook the second hose to the fill pipe.

When the spreader gate won't stay closed, maybe you can explain the difference between one-way and two-way again, and he'll understand.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying...your synical opinion and mine always seem to match up :lol:

He is just hauling horse crap so I ignored the need for down pressure as it isn't slop manure. He also has a half dozen fair pigs, but that is solid as well. He really wouldn't even need the end gate, but the spreader came with it. We talked about just pulling the gate off and not even messing with hydraulics.
 
If hooked up with both hoses, it will have hydraulic oil in the rod end of the cylinder, lubricating it. Also if the door will not stay closed, the system will need to be two way. Or a latch to hold it closed for transit to the field. Jim
 
Well, we used it today and it worked about 90%. The door won't stay up when you let the pressure off. If you raise it all the way up the door goes over center and you have to get off and push it a hair to make it close.
Does the gate settle (instantly) because there is nothing to lock the fluid in the line or because of a problem? The gate goes down just as fast wether you are pushing forward on the rod or if you just let off from bringing the gate up.
Luckily there is a big hill by the driveway to the field he is spreading in. There is enough of an angle that the door can close without having to get off :lol:
 
If it is using the original rod controlled valve it should hold the door at any position other than all the way down. If it does not, the most likely issue is a bad lift cylinder. This would allow the oil to leak past the piston and return through the hose you plumbed in. To assure this diagnosis, lift up the door and block it with a 2X4. Remove both supply line and the return line that you plumbed in from the reservoir, and cap the supply line, put the return line in a bucket to catch any fluid. Remove the 2X4 carefully, from the door and watch for fluid to come out the hose. It should come out just a little at first, then stop. If the door returns to the closed position, the cylinder is leaking internally.
If the door stays put, the issue is with the tractor. The pump control valve might be out of position with the control lever/rod assembly, or it could be a bad valve internally or pressure regulator. Make a stop to prevent overcentering the door, or a shorter cylinder, or a spring to push it back. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 19:59:05 04/29/11) If it is using the original rod controlled valve it should hold the door at any position other than all the way down. If it does not, the most likely issue is a bad lift cylinder. This would allow the oil to leak past the piston and return through the hose you plumbed in. To assure this diagnosis, lift up the door and block it with a 2X4. Remove both supply line and the return line that you plumbed in from the reservoir, and cap the supply line, put the return line in a bucket to catch any fluid. Remove the 2X4 carefully, from the door and watch for fluid to come out the hose. It should come out just a little at first, then stop. If the door returns to the closed position, the cylinder is leaking internally.
If the door stays put, the issue is with the tractor. The pump control valve might be out of position with the control lever/rod assembly, or it could be a bad valve internally or pressure regulator. Make a stop to prevent overcentering the door, or a shorter cylinder, or a spring to push it back. Jim
Click to expand...

If the fluid comes out and continues to come out then it would be bypassing/leaking withing the cylinder?
 
If the pressure hose is capped, the other hose will continue to leak out fluid if (and really only if, the piston is bypassing and the door is going down on its own. The bottom half of the cylinder has no ram shaft going through it and because of this it is not equal displacement end to end.
As the fluid leaks, the upper (ram side) gets more and more fluid in it, but the piston is moving down, making more room, because the ram shaft is also entering this space, the fluid will come out of the non pressure hose.
To be an equal force two way cylinder, the cylinder needs to have a rod coming out of both ends. (there are those made to operate that way)
The oil coming out will not be as much volume as might be expected, but it will come out as it settles. If the door stays put exactly where it rests when the support is removed, (it may sag a little, then stay exactly still, the cylinder is good. Jim
 
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