Super A overheats

The block was hot tanked, and has all new or reconditioned parts. Only the cam was left untouched. Head and crank done at a machine shop. 3.25" sleeves, 132 cu in. Radiator seemed ok, so I did nothing to it. I'm going to flush it and maybe take it to radiator shop to have it cleaned. It did not overheat before the overhaul. Although I had no gauge, it never lost antifreeze out the overflow. The only thing I did different from was to add a temperature gauge to the UPPER block outlet. It runs on the edge of the red, and once I lost antifreeze out the overflow. I used the outlet off a C123, and cut off the top to fit the shorter C113 radiator. Another difference in the outlet is it is a larger diameter than the C113 outlet. I have two hoses overlapping to make up the difference between the block outlet and radiator inlet. My question is: Does the larger outlet detrimentally influence the water movement in the thermosiphon system? I really have not put the tractor under load yet, just run it around my property with no load. Currently installing the reconditioned Woods mower that was on the tractor when I bought it. The new head gasket is correct for the engine, it is not the smaller holed one for the C123. Did I miss something other than the radiator, which I believe is in pretty good shape.

The answer is no it should not be a factor at all. If the new outlet has a thermostat in it that is the problem. The thermosiphon cannot have a stat in it. If it has none, the radiator could be the problem, use an infrared thermometer to "see" hot places. Jim

Thanks -- no thermostat, I'll check the radiator. I didn't think the outlet could cause a problem, but I'm trying to look at the simpler things first. Another thing -- I posted about the belt pulley leaking. For now at least,its fixed. You mentioned a groove in the sleeve for an o-ring. I simply slid an o-ring over the belt pulley shaft, and pressed the Woods pulley and sleeve against it. The shaft, sleeve and o-ring rotate as a unit. The o-ring acts as a gasket, and does not turn against anything. Works so far.

Where did your temperature gauge come from? If it is similar to the original it is probably calibrated for the inlet temperature rather than the outlet. Probably not overheating. Measure the actual temperature with some other gauge, maybe an infrared that you can aim at the outlet neck.

I tend to agree it's ot your cooling system.

That one burp you got out of it would be typical -- could be from being slightly overfilled, could have been caused by a bubble at the back end of the head or block expanding and forcing some out. Couldn't hurt to flush it. And Jims notion about finding a thermometer to aim at it might be helpful.

I'd suggest checking your timing, to make sure first that it is set correctly and that it's advancing the way it should. A retarded spark, especially with a variable advance at high rpms, will cause overheating. It ignites the fuel late enough in the stroke that it is still burning when the valve opens and you have combustion in the upper part of the head where the cooling isn't up to it. Signs of this would be excessively hot manifold or muffler -- and it can happen even with a light load.

Gentlemen,

Let's see, added 19 CI in displacement or about 16 to 18%. IH engineers decided that a water pump and larger radiator would be advisable? While timing and fuel to air ratio play a part in the heating, if you try to get full power out of the engine that is roughly 16 to 18% more heat to be expelled through the radiator? Consider that roughly 33% of fuel is converted to power, 33% to cooling heat losses and 33% out the exhaust as wasted energy for that model engine. At part load the cooling system will probably get by, but probably not at full power and long term.

Not a bad observation, but I think you're underestimating the efficiency of the thermosiphon system. Even after working hard, the lower inlet on a 113 would be warmer than lukewarm but not uncomfortable while the upper outlet would be hotter than you'd want to hang onto for very long.

IH only added the waterpump and thermostat when they upped the rpms on the SuperC and the later SuperAs while at the same time retarding the timing from the earlier versions.

Feel the bottom hose when you think it's overheating. If it isn't getting hot I think the radiator may need to be rodded out. Hal

If I remember right it is for a SC or SA1 -- will double check the number. I thought about all of this before I decided to get a gauge, but that does not mean I actually did it.

Rustcollector -- I thought about that too, but this is all under no-load in 70 degree weather. It might very well do that with a clogged radiator, though.

I think you mean if the lower, cooler hose IS hot; I will check.

Scotty, you might have something -- at the moment I don't have a working timing light. The distributer was replaced (Steel Wheel Ranch) a couple of years ago, I have no clue what the advance on it is supposed to be. More likely a problem if under full load, so it about has to be the radiator. Do you or anyone else know what full advance should be?

That's what I mean by feeling the lower radiator hose. If it doesn't get pretty hot I don't think you're getting the circulation through your radiator. The tubes may be blocked in the radiator. If you can gain access to the outside
of your radiator touch the outer surface lightly with your hand to see if it feels hot all over. If it feels hot near the top and cooler further down could mean plugged tubes. Hal
PS: If permanent antifreeze was used on that tractor and never changed could be the culprit. Permanent was meant to be used since it would't boil away like the alcohol would. We would drain the alcohol when the cold weather was over. My late father-in law thought permanent meant forever and he had a lot of radiator plugging problems when the anti-freeze loses it rust inhibitor. Even the late model cars and trucks recommend changing after 5 years and flushing the system. I have an old 1981 Mercury Cougar and I change it every 2 or 3 years since the heater core is a b to change by pulling the dash.

Did you mix the water and antifreeze prior to filling the system? Since a thermosiphon system relies on the difference in density between hot and cold coolant, if you didn't pre-mix, and if there is a greater difference in density between the water and anti-freeze, there will be no thermosiphon action.

El Toro, I'll have to pull the grill. First thing I'm going to do is to try flushing it with the current Prestone or whatever cleaning solution. I don't expect that to do much but maybe I can see if anything comes out. Operators manual says to use washing soda, probably before the other stuff was invented. CaseIH has some solution also. My best bet is to have it rodded -- of course there is the chance that rust is all that is holding it together -- did that to my C a few years ago, had to replace the radiator. But, looking at the openings at the top of the core, they do not look bad to me. Also the tractor seems to be faster in each gear. Governor was cleaned and "recalibrated", I may have the RPM's too high. Going to see if NAPA or somewhere has a tach I can use on the PTO. So, there are several things to check.

That is a great Oring solution. I just thought that simple would be best. A machine repair shop might have a infrared hand held you could use to find the cold spots in the circulation Jim

I have always done that, had tractor for 10+ years.

I would not consider the RPM to be a factor. The issue is happening while still putzing around at High Idle and less. Leave the cap loose (if it is a pressure cap)and get it warmed up to the point that the gauge is in the middle of the range. Remove the cap (carefully) and look for flow. Use a candy thermometer to check the temp of the coolant in the tank. If it is flowing well, the issue might be deposits in the tubes.
If not flowing it is either plugged tubes, or a mechanics rag left in the water jacket (I've done it in my youth) Jim

Figgered you would, you've been around long enough to understand how those things work.