Question about hydrolics for M

I have 1947 M. My three point won't go up and down and I'm thinking my fluid is low. What do I put in, where do I put it in? Are there any free diagrams out there? Thanks in advance.

Belly pump or live hydraulics?

I'm an idiot so I'm not sure. There is one hose coming up on the right side into a little pump (? where the three hoses meet) that is engaged with a long wire, and two hoses running back under the seat to the three point. Right behind the pump (?) is a screw-off cap with a dip stick on it. The dip stick is either broken or not connected to the cap on purpose. There is some kind of fiber packing up in the cap. The stick itself is corroded as hell from the top down to about the last inch, which is not corroded at all. The dip stick is about 12 inches long or so. I could take some picks but it would take awhile. Let me know if you would prefer that. Thanks.

if there is two lines running front the front of the tractor near the distributor back to the middle just underneath the gas tank then its live hydrolics if there is no lines like that and the lines come out of the belly of the tractor that would not be live

The little pump you mention is up by the distributor/mag? It sounds like it is which would mean you do have live hydraulics. That also means you need to use hydraulic fluid...any universal will do. I usually use HyTran since I always have some around. Sounds like you are using the bally pump housing as a reserbior which holds 6 quarts (maybe 7 or 8 if the guts are removed which they probably are). The packing inside your cap is supposed to be there, you can pull it out and clean with kerosene if wanted.

Sounds like you NEED a book(s)!

This should help.
The single hose from the place where the two hoses attach going to the rear. is connected either to a fitting on the side of the tractor (elbow) or to a pump forward of the distributor. If it goes to the side behind the engine, it has a belly pump AKA real name "Liftall". There should be a second hose or pipe fittings that "T" into the place where the cap is located. The cap is (originally) a heavy bakers hat style knob with a dip stick under it on a flat washer that keeps it from falling in the hole.
The dip stick should be sanded clean and it should have marks on it. If not the oil should show an inch or two up on the stick. It is not finicky about level if it is on the stick it has enough. It can take 30wt engine oil (non detergent) or Hydraulic oil. Filled into the cap with the dip stick. Total capacity is about 6 quarts. Another reason it might not be working is that there is a second control rod going to a lever on the side of the transmission This rod must be pulled back to operate the pressure to the system.
The Pump only works if the engine is driving the transmission. Either in gear moving, or in Neutral with your foot off of the clutch.
The pump is connected to what is called a Christmas tree valve (which is what IH oldsters call it) It is just a control valve for 2 way hydraulics, and is controlled by a rod (or thick wire about 1/4" in diameter. This is an optional original component from Farmall.
If the filling and second lever being pulled produces no joy, the pump might be either not being driven, it has a short drive shaft under a plate on the bottom of the tractor.
If the hoses (two) go forward to a pump on the engine, it has live hydraulics. It should also have oil to the stick, but it will work when ever the engine runs, clutch in or out. Let us know what you have. Jim

Hi folks. Very helpful comments, thanks. I think I understand and I think it does need some oil if that dip stick is any indication. It is dry. However, it can't be cleaned. The corrosion is almost like a electric plating transfer has occurred somehow. Anyway, it looks like pouring oil in through that filler cap behind the pump might be an interesting proposition since it's back up under a ways but I think I can manage it. I'm trying to post a picture for you with this post:

Well, I can't seem to get the photo option to work but here is the photobucket link. Thanks again for all your help.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/Recon_Jim/041011.jpg?t=1302461036

I may have screwed up. I thought I put in a goodly amount of oil, like two quarts, so I stopped to check and see how I was doing and the dip stick was still dry. I thought I probably had a way to go then, so I put in about three quarts more and it over-filled, right to the top. Now I show dry about two inches *down* on the dipstick, instead of two inches *up.*

Do I have to pull a plug and drain some oil, or do you think it can run with that much in it? Thanks again for all the help folks.

The over full will not hurt anything unless you attach a single acting cylinder to it, and that is not the case at this point. A double acting cylinder on your hitch will use oil out of the reservoir, and give back oil out of the other end of the cylinder in almost equal proportions. No issue. If it was dry and not working because of lack of fluid, it might take some to fill the air spaces, do not fret. Just do it. Jim

You can fill that reservoir right to the top. No problem.

That was a weird one. You have to select the second option, "Direct link..." Copy and paste with the img brackets around it or on old forum I think you can just copy the text in a thing on the bottom.

Side note, did IH have an "official" way/kit to mount the two way hydraulics to the Ms/Hs?

Here's a bummer. Found the leak. Under the bottom where the drain plug is, toward the front of the plate which bolts onto the bottom of the tractor, on each side of that plate, there is an indent. It is *not* leaking on the right side but it is on the left. The indent almost looks factory but for the life of me I can't figure out what it would be there for. I'm assuming the gasket is leaking back up under the indent and I'll have to drain all the oil, remove the plate and replace the gasket. It's just a drip, but I think that was my problem. Wish I could just shove some gum up in there.

sflem849, thanks for getting the photo up. I tried in the old format and new format, with and without the

Yeah it wanted some goofy code. I had to go to your photobucket and get it bc the one you had it didn't like I used:
img]http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/Recon_Jim/041011.jpg[/img
but with the [] on each end.

I think you were talking about the main seal for the belly pump? Have fun replacing that! It is a PITA to get the two pump halves back together after you put the seal on. I suggest using copper or some other sealer and glueing the gasket to one of the halves (probably big one) It is terrible trying to get that oval thingy on the arm lined up with the pin thingy.
Also, don't forget to get that seal for the shaft as well as the gasket. The local bearing store had one for super cheap when I did mine.

Did the hydraulics work?
Lowering the pump requires ready rods to screw in place of the bolts, allowing slow but controlled lowering. All elbows are removed, the top pipe fittings , and the control lever.
Then the drive shaft (above/inside the plate on the bottom of the tractor)
Pull the cotter pins and it comes out.
There are disassembly instructions in the Search for archives. Jim

(quoted from post at 18:22:38 04/11/11) Did the hydraulics work?
Lowering the pump requires ready rods to screw in place of the bolts, allowing slow but controlled lowering. All elbows are removed, the top pipe fittings , and the control lever.
Then the drive shaft (above/inside the plate on the bottom of the tractor)
Pull the cotter pins and it comes out.
There are disassembly instructions in the Search for archives. Jim

Click to expand...

Yes, the hydraulics work great, so that must have been the problem. However, I'm *really* dumping oil now, like never before and all I really did was dig around with just the *tip* of my finger (couldn't really get any more in there). I'm not set up for that correct repair work. I wonder if I could gently tap some lead or solder wire in there with a hammer. Somehow I get the feeling this was there when I bought it last year and the seller just used some stop-gap measure like that to stop the leak and it just now came out. Any other ideas?

You have been a great help. Thanks.

I did my MD three times this winter...don't ask...with a jack, a block of wood, and two guys. It helps to have reddy rod (we call it all thread) but I am too cheap to buy it. If you cut the heads off some long bolts it will help you get it aligned.
Just about anybody has the stuff and the ability to do it. It just sucks taking the pump in and out bc it is fairly heavy.

Diagram for Australian built Farmall tractors showing hydraulic remote control set up