Can a '41 distillate H pull a fully loaded haywagon in 5th?

After rebuilding my "41 H I was surprised it didn"t seem to have more power. It seemed to struggle taking off in 5 gear and worked harder than I thought going up hills in road gear.
Then I remembered growing up the H I drove was usually only in 4th gear, and it was a 300 that I"d haul fully loaded haywagons back and forth between farms. Is a 300 that much more powerful than an H? Are they geared the same?
My H has a low compression distillate head recently rebuilt, and I replaced the pistons with high compression pistons.

The 300 and 350 were quite a bit more perky than a plain H. Fifth gear for the plain H and the plain M was strictly for road use and not for pulling much weight on the road. That's why the M&W and other nine-speed setups were popular.

The distillate head doesn't help things, and if you used the standard bore kit with high compression pistons you didn't gain that much.

Would I be apt to gain more by replacing the head with a gas only head? And if so would there be a noticable difference making it worth the cost and effort?

There not much in top gear, most 300 had a T/A also besides more power. Had a 41 H on farm growing up, it was a gasoline with regular cast iron pistons. When a grade was encountered with a load it didn't take long until into forth. When I purchased a M with 4 inch bore fire craters it seemed like it would pull 3 times the load and the H also in high. Probably wouldn't but was a big difference.

Road gear is not a pulling gear on any tractor I have driven. I pull three fully loaded hay wagons with the SMTA in 3rd gear and often times those are hooked behind the baler. It roars but handles just fine. Does tend to stop traffic.

When going up and down hills, keep in mind the weight of the load vs weight of the tractor. I assume your hay wagon probably does not have brakes. If your load is heavier than your tractor, going down hill on gravel could be a killer.
I guess one indicator with an H is if it won't pull it up hill, then you don't want the load chasing you down the hill.

changing the head will give you more power.... But 5th gear is still gonna be pretty fast for pulling much load. An H is still gonna be an H.

We always pulled hay and corn wagons fully loaded with an H, it was a 48 gas head, but it had plenty of power. We did shift to 4th on hills.

I have 41 H, gas engine.I put a Woods L306 6ft mower under it for my 4 acre field. But, it seems like all gears but 1st, or 2nd , are too fast on ground speed. I might have a strange H, but it is really fast in all gears. 5th, is only to be used, after good moving from 4th gear. Then, hope there are no hills, or you will be back in 4th in no time. Been there, done that.

When I was a boy, back in the 40's, my next door farm neighbor let me handle the fully loaded hay wagon more than once and it was no problem with Jerry doing all the pulling. And more than once it was up a hill over a rutted, gravelly lane. He was just a big black plow horse, strong and kind of ornery, but it only took one horsepower to pull that wagon. What's the matter with that "H"?

I have an H and a Super C. The C will go just as far in high gear as the H with the same load behind it , but it is a little slower.

For the most part no H or M will start off with much if any load in 5th gear. You need to get going in 4th then shift up but pulling a hay wagon behind you loaded in 5th is just plain and out right stupid and a good way to get killed. Brakes on the H are not all that good and a full load of hay on a wagon it by far more weight then the tractor so unless you have a big life insurance policy your just out to leave some one a big bill and clean up. True story. Back in the late 60s my brother worked for a guy and the guy had an H told my brother not to drive it in 5th but my stupid brother did and about lost it because he could not slow the load down. Road gear and a load do not mix so please do not do so unless you have a big life insurance policy

We pulled round bales with ours, 3 on the trailer. Gave it the gas when we had to, slowed down when we didnt, using the throttle well in advance of turning, BUT we kept it on backroads where hardly noone drove.

We pulled lots of hay for miles with an H. Usually our wagons held 110 to 130 bales weighing from 50# to 80#. Start it out in fourth then grind it into fifth. Some big hills you have to downshift back to 4th. Make sure your brakes work so you can stop. Usually had a person on the wagon to let you know if someone was coming up behind you. Dad's rule was you had to be 12 to drive the tractor and 7 to ride the wagon. Once every two years or so someone would lose a load but restacking it by yourself on the side of the road cured the foolishness that caused those mistakes.

Yet somehow we pulled full haywagons 3 miles from the field to the farm in 5th gear with the 300 for many many years and never dumped a load and we never died ....
3 miles, flat paved road, very little traffic.

Had an old guy kill himself here just a few years ago, loaded hay wagon behind a baler behind an H. Going downhill on pavement with a turn at the bottom of the hill. According to his wife who was following in a car he couldn't get it slowed down and tried to make the turn anyway.

Be careful!

Rick

We used to haul loads of hay with an 8N Ford with overdrive. It would do over 20 mph. One day the wagon started whipping and just about took us off the road before we got it stopped! From then on, we took it a little more careful, especially when pulling that particular wagon.

Bottom line--it can be done, but use your head, and don't do anything stupid! With any equipment, common sense needs to prevail.

I have to agree with Nebraska Cowman about an H always being an H. If the tractor runs well and you like it, keep it. If you want to pull loaded wagons down the road, get something a lot bigger with decent brakes.

Well, that is pretty much what I was trying to do, get a feel for if it is running right and has the power it should. Sounds like many people safely pull full loads in 5th gear under proper conditions and with exercising a little caution.

This is a fresh rebuild, right?

Power will get better as the rings seat, if you put it to work right away and get it up to operating temperature.

That said, what do you consider a loaded hay wagon? That could be anywhere from 50 bales to 200 bales, depending on the size of the wagon, and 35# bales to 80# bales depending on the quality of the hay and the baler.

An H pulling a wagon appropriate for an H should be able to maintain on the flat in 5th. With a 9x20 wagon loaded with 180 bales, not so much.

Oh, well, why not add my 4 cents worth?(inflation makes the old 2 cents worth just about worthless).
Fifth gear on H and M are direct drive through the tranny, just like the third gear on a 3-speed car transmission, back when that was a normal gearbox. Pretty impractical much of the time, just because back in "my day," the back roads were washboards, and as often as not, our wagons had iron tires. There just isn't enough torque to start a heavy load in fifth, and there certainly isn't enough torque to toodle along at high idle while you're trying to do maybe 6 or 7 mph with a loaded wagon. Many's the mile I went from our fields to the barn in 4th gear, wide open, roaring like mad. IHC should have followed the lead of Oliver and John Deere, who
put in six gears. Fifth on those tractors would have been perfect for the country roads. Even sixth was much slower than the 5th on the H and M, and would have had a lot more torque, I imagine. Maybe some of you fellows can testify to that if you've had experience with those tractors (gulp! they're not red!).
As to field speeds, the speeds of H and M were typical of their day. Second was considered "plowing speed" in the 20s and 30s and probably in the 40s, too. I know from bushhogging with an H and a Super M that even first can be too fast under certain conditions. IHC did offer a lower first, which I think came packaged with a 7 mph fourth. Both of these speeds would be really useful. An H does not have enough moxie to do pull its normal load in fourth, and as everybody here says, fourth was just too slow for the road. Sweet tractor to drive, especially way back then when they first came out. Every time my father would go to town, I'd coax him to stop at the IHC dealer so I could drool over those red beauties. Later, when my father bought one, I was disappointed in the lack of torque (compared to the F-20 and 10-20 I was used to), but the comfort level next to those old beasts made everything all right. For their day, they were pretty comfortable.

Well, you can tell old farm stories till the cows come home. The bottom line is that an H in good condition will not pull in 5th unless you are going flat or down hill. It just does not have the HP. Stories about pulling a loaded trailer in 5th is a bunch of wet hay.

I don't know how you guys pull heavy loads in 5th. I tried pulling my fully loaded manure spreader in 5th with my M, and it wasn't having it. And it makes normal power and has a healthy engine.

yeah, a fresh rebuild, I have plowed snow with it and its been run for about 5 hours.

I think our hay wagaons were fully loaded with 120 square bails.

I'll add my 2 cents...

I've hauled loaded 4 wheel hay wagons (120 squares) on the road in hilly terrain and had no problem with a W-4. Slow but 5th is usable. You'd get nothing done with out 5th!

You can't start a load in 5th gear unless you want to burn the clutch up or are headed down grade. Start in 4th and double clutch into 5th. Same thing for hills, gear down, I can gear down shift on the move without the clutch if I do my job right and get the revs right. I've NEVER gone down a steep hill fully loaded in 5th, 4th gear will hold you back but you'll feel the load pushing you. Just gear down BEFORE the hill....not while on it and never try to gear down these old tractors if you do get running away in 5th because you won't make the shift to 4th and then you'll have ZERO engine braking. Same thing, gear down when going up hill, just wait until 5th is almost, but not quite done and hit 4th while you still have momentum.

Yes the brakes are poor, but that is where driver competency comes into play....don't over drive it! I NEVER use the brakes when hauling with W-4...why heat and burn them up so they don't work when you need them.

Yes there should be a gear between 4th and 5th, yes the brakes should be better etc etc....that's why the W-4 got retired here, get a better tractor unless you can live with the draw backs.