Farmall 656 Starter

Having issue with the starter on my 656. Seems like there are several possible starters. Serial number on the tractor is 12313 which I think makes it a 1966. It is a gas version.
Can anyone offer advice how to correctly select a new starter for this tractor? I can find no ID in the starter itself but it looks like a 9 tooth.
Has always seemed to grind a bit before catching?
Any advice is welcome
thank
tom

There were two different flywheel ring gears used on a 656 gas and therefore two different drive gears. Looking at the parts manual on the ring gears and flywheels it is impossible to figure it out. If you look at the starter number in the parts book it does give a serial number break for the starter though and that may get you on the right track. If your dealer could pull up the old service bulletin that would tell you what is going on but some dealers don't have the hard copies that far back and I am not sure if the computer copies go back that far. I have some but not a complete set of service bulletins. This subject comes up every once in a while. I had one of the other mechanics in our shop replace a starter drive and it did just what yours is doing, I checked it out and found parts dept had given him wrong part so I went out to the farm and replaced the drive at his place. Problem lies in the fact the 263 was used in so many applications that there are several flywheels and gears and it gets all mixed up.

Find a local alternator and starter repair shop in the Yellow Pages. It will run about a 100.00 to have yours rebuilt.(You need a new Bendix) or fix it yourself for 35.00.

No doubt you have a bad drive , problem is like stated, figuring out which drive is correct for this tractor. It is not a bendix as it is a clutch type drive. If you put same number teeth drive back in and it is wrong you just bought a wrong drive and or starter complete which ever way you go. Like I said before, the service bulletin would tell you what count of teeth on ring gear goes with what count of teeth on starter drive gear. I have a 656 gasoline gear drive apart right now for clutch and ta job. I will count the teeth on flywheel and starter when I get back out there tomorrow weather etc permitting. I will note engine and tractor serial number. I may ask parts dept at CASEIH if they can furnish me a bulletin also as I have to call him for other things as well.

There certainly is a lot of confusion on the starters for the 656. I have not run into a problem using the 10 tooth drive instead of the 9 tooth but it may be just that I have been lucky.

My old engine parts book lists part number 388302R2 as the ring gear for a gear drive gas tractor but that number has been crossed out to be replaced by number 396421R1, which is the same ring gear as the Hydro's used. It does not list a tooth count for number 388302R2 but number 396421R1 shows it has 133 teeth. The online parts listings only show number 396421R1 as being used for both gear drive and the Hydro.

The starters are just as confusing. There is only one listed for the hydro, 1107854, for S/N 36467 and above. That most likely is correct since the Hydrostatic transmission was not available on the first 656 tractors.

The gear drive tractors list three different starter numbers.

1107744 Used on Farmall S/N 22598 and below.
1107543 Used on Farmall S/N 36466 and below.
1108344 Used on Farmall S/N 22598 and above.

The two starter drive part numbers are 1939109 for the 9 tooth drive and 1851427 for the 10 tooth drive.

Starters number 1107744 and 1107543 use the 9 tooth drive number 1939109.

starters number 1108344 and 1107854 use the 10 tooth drive number 1851427.

The 9 tooth drive has an outside diameter of the gear of 29 mm. The 10 tooth drive has an OD of 32 mm.

I like to look at the old drive to see the wear pattern of where the ring gear is making contact. If it is in the center of the tooth on the 9 tooth drive I like to replace it with a 10 tooth to get better a engagement pattern.

I prefer to have our's rebuilt. We have a good auto electric repair shop just a few miles away & my experience is that I end up with a better product for less money than if I buy a reman one.

OK guys I will try to have it rebuilt - sounds like the easiest way to go?
Thanks for you help
tom

Starter number on this 656 is 1107744 and has the 9 tooth pinion gear and 134 tooth ring gear on flywheel. (book lists a 133 tooth so I may have miscouted flywheel but other gears have a lot more teeth like 149 or so). Tractor serial # is 20724.

(quoted from post at 21:16:35 02/07/11) Starter number on this 656 is 1107744 and has the 9 tooth pinion gear and 134 tooth ring gear on flywheel. (book lists a 133 tooth so I may have miscouted flywheel but other gears have a lot more teeth like 149 or so). Tractor serial # is 20724.

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The 134 teeth is probably correct. The original ring gear number in my old engine book is 388302R2 with no tooth count given. It has been replaced by 396421R1 which is the same as the hydro and has 133 teeth. The 134 tooth ring gear would probably match up better with the 9 tooth drive. It would also explain why there sometimes are problems with a rebuilt starter not engaging properly.

I'll make a note in my engine book about the tooth count. It may keep me from having a problem in the future. I've had customers complain about the starters failing every year with the 9 tooth drive. When I've changed them to the 10 tooth they have lasted much longer. It is looking like I have been lucky and never sent out a 10 tooth drive to be installed on a tractor with the 134 tooth ring gear.

Owen, that makes sense. I will recount that ring gear again today though just to be sure. I called my friend (parts man at CASEIH dealership) and he could not come up with that old of a service bulletin, but it still sticks in my head as I used to file all the bulletins back in those days. I have several bulletins I purchased after I retired when a dealership went out of bussiness but they are not complete. Mostly in the late 70's and 80's.