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M farmall

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rick deere

Well-known Member
I have a M farmall, has a step down starter on it. The starter will not start tractor, I have replaced battery, cables, switch, and have taken starter back to the shop twice, and still will not turn tractor over fast enough to start, WHAT CAN I LOOK FOR NEXT ,thanks Ric When I do start tractor runs ok.can timing be off.
 

What is a step down starter???

If that M turns over and will not start you probably have other issues
 
magneto or battery ignition? The step down worked pretty good with magneto as they don't have to crank fast to start. With battery ignition maybe not so much. For battery ignition I like an original straight drive starter and a good 12 volt battery to spin them over. The gear driven "step down" starter is a holdover from 6 volt days. It developed more torque but is slow.
 
(quoted from post at 10:42:02 02/06/11) magneto or battery ignition? The step down worked pretty good with magneto as they don't have to crank fast to start. With battery ignition maybe not so much. For battery ignition I like an original straight drive starter and a good 12 volt battery to spin them over. The gear driven "step down" starter is a holdover from 6 volt days. It developed more torque but is slow.
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So, they actually made a gear reduction starter for those???

I have a standard starter, 6 volts, battery ignition and it starts fine.

Of course it would be better with 12 volts!!!

I like the original look and mine is mainly a toy anyhow.
 
Remember, these babies could be hand cranked to start. So, starter speed is not really an issue. If you get one cylinder to pop, it can start the whole beast. Generally, only two things will prevent a gasoline engine from starting: Lack of gas or lack of spark. Verify both of those systems and stop messing with the starting system. If you [u:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]really[/b:654c4848f0][/u:654c4848f0] feel that compression is low and you need a faster starter, check your valve lash. When I first got my M, my valve lash was so far out, it was a wonder the engine was running at all.
 
We had a Farmal400 that we put a step down starter kit on and with a 6 volt battery still would not start until we installed the biggest 12 volt battery that would fit in the box. Started good after that. If the tractor compression has been upgraded over the years than you have to upgrade the bettery as well! What would start a tractor at factory hp. will not provide good starting after high compression pistons and other upgrades have been added. Go 12 volts and enjoy! Armand
 
(quoted from post at 12:21:18 02/06/11) low voltage at coil due to heavy drain by starter
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I have also seen a few people using the small group 1 battery in an M. That may not have enough juice at a couple hundred amps less

My M had a size 1 and I went looking for a 3 but it seems they are no longer made so I guess I will have to settle for a 2 as a 4 will not fit the box. :(

It looks like a current 2 is about the same as the old 3 so it may be fine.
 
Has a new 1000 cranking amp 12 volt battery, engine will not turn fast enough to start...turn key on and push button on floor or in front of gear shift. can I be loosing my fire threw distributor???starter was looked at by the pros
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:25 02/06/11) Has a new 1000 cranking amp 12 volt battery, engine will not turn fast enough to start...turn key on and push button on floor or in front of gear shift. can I be loosing my fire threw distributor???starter was looked at by the pros
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You did not say it was on 12 volts.

Distributor has NO bearing on cranking speed

So a step down starter is just a stock M starter after all???

That should really spin.

IF the starter is good then you have cable & connection issues.

You need to take some volt readings while cranking the engine and some amp draws on the starter.
 
First thing I would do if you have a gear reduction starter it throw that starter away and get a good starter. I put a few of them kits on both trucks and tractors and never liked the results and same with the ones that others had installed. Ruins a good armature cutting the shaft off to install them. A 6 volt regular starter works fine with a 12 volt battery on an M.
 
One thing to add...If this is a 6 volt system you can"t use the 12 volt size battery cable you get in automotive stores. I had the same problem on my M until I went and made custom cables out of welding cable with crimp on ends. 6 volt systems need large wire to carry the current needed to turn that starter. Can"t remember the size of the cable but it"s 1/2" or better for just the copper. 2/0 AWG I think.
 
My son had similar problem on his A Farmall; turned out to be an open circuit in the starter armature. Try a different starter.
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:28 02/06/11) One thing to add...If this is a 6 volt system you can"t use the 12 volt size battery cable you get in automotive stores. I had the same problem on my M until I went and made custom cables out of welding cable with crimp on ends. 6 volt systems need large wire to carry the current needed to turn that starter. Can"t remember the size of the cable but it"s 1/2" or better for just the copper. 2/0 AWG I think.
Click to expand...

You want to use a heavy 0 or 00 gauge cable for 6v systems, and make the cables as short as possible, and have clean shiney grounds.
 
Rick, have some new cables made up using 00 cable with soldered terminals and routed the shortest distance possible. Ground the battery to a starter to tractor frame mounting bolt. Clean all connections as clean as possible. Use external tooth washers between all cable terminals and whatever they contact for current flow as they bite into metalic parts for improved contact. That is about the best you can do except replace the switch which can lose efficiency as well. If that doesn't fix your problem you need to check each part, starter, battery, wiring, etc. to find the problem. Hope this helps, Hal.
 
Check all the obvious connections first. I had one that would turn fine on the bench but not in the tractor. The problem was traced to poor contact between the three case parts of the starter. The starter had been rebuilt by a pro but he painted
the parts then assembled them. A wire brush cured the problem.
 
Professionals can't tell if the starter is any good or not. All they do is hook 12V to them, and if they spin, they're "good." You can do it at home.

A starter can crank the bejeezus out of an engine, but suck so much current that there's nothing left to charge the coil. We had one like that on the Super C. I guarantee a "professional" would hook it up and declare it "good." You could crank and crank and crank and crank until the battery was dead, no fire. Picked up a junkyard starter, now the thing fires off the second you pull the starter rod.
 
(quoted from post at 15:25:25 02/07/11) Yes, they will start better timed a little slow than they will timed fast.
Click to expand...

My SMTA, set up for pulling, doesn't want to start very good at all bc of the timing being fast. It sure does lug though.
 
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