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SMTA FRONT TIEDOWN FOR HAULING

B

Bud W

Member
I would like to attach a clevis to each side of the castiron front bolster on my SMTA with a bolt into the existing factory attachment holes.I would then strap from the two clevis' to the front of my trailer. Is there any risk that the bolster casting could break by doing this?
Thanks for your opinion.
 
I would feel much safer putting the tie down points on the front of the tractor"s frame. Should be plenty of holes to put an eye bolt, or what ever, in. That would eliminate putting undo strain on the bolster, especially when starting to move.
 
Thanks guys-I got the message and will go another way-now get back to your Christmas Dinner or Ballgame.
 
I read that on the spec sheet when I bought the eyebolts.

I chose to do some research and this is what I did.
I bought a USA made 6000 lb rated eyebolt and screwed it into the casting of a scrap super m then had the crane lift it off the ground. He was not gentle with it. It was on the front of the tractor so the lift was from the side. It didn't break.

I chose to mount 2-3/4" 6k rated and 2-5/8" 4.5K rated eyebolts in the cultivator mounting holes of my SH. 2 on each side. I tie down with 4 separate chains.

I am real comfortable with the 21k capacity of the 4 eyebolts with slight side pull holding down my 4600lb tractor.

I have logged a lot of miles and been DOT'ed one time with no issues.

My Buddy is the crane operator/rigger and says that they are underrated and that the "straight pull" warning is from the attorneys. Having said that I don't recommend putting 6K side load on a 6k rated eyebolt.
 
There are lifting eye bolts made that are hinged and they are rated the same for side or straght loads! When lifting people use shackles instead of a clevis. Bud-retired millwright.
 
Any good industrial supply would have quality Chain,Shackles,and Swivel Eye Bolts. Nope,Do not look at harbor freight as would trust their rigging! Bud.
 
I took some 3/8 x 2 x 5 and put 1 1/4 hole in one end and 3/4 in the other and bolted them to the tapped holes in the side. They are bent about 30 deg. so the pull is straight, I trust them and they stay on our C all the time.
 

I made these up for mine

p50771.jpg


p50772.jpg
 
use the finger hook like the car hauler uses in the frame with a ratchet strap been using it for 5 years works great and fast
 
I have been looking on EBay for I bolts and there are some I am going to buy (if shipping is reasonable). 1/2 bolt size rated @ 10,000 lbs. $6.95 each. I am an old fxxt and do not know how to post link.
 
Here is what I did on my M. I used two bolts and fastened it to the frame rails, and the chain does not swing and scrach the paint. Bob
a28625.jpg

a28626.jpg
 

If you tie at a proper angle and tighten the chains down you will bend/break bolts or pull the chain over the heads.

It looks like you will only pull on one bolt unless you pull straight down.
 
After I took them pic. I seen the same thing so I put a washer on the outside. I have hauled it with them for two years that way and when I pull the binders tight the tires are squashed so I don't think I would worry about a bent bolt. The reason for the two bolts is so the chain doesn't swing around and scrach the paint.
Bob
 
With respect, I have two reservations about the process you are using.
I would rather have the load close to the frame rail, not out on the end of a nut. A bolted on plate with grab hook welded on is better.

The force that allows you to squish the tires is subtracted from the actual holding power.
A chain or fastner perloaded to 50% has only 50% left to hold the forces applied! Just squish enough to show some added tire deflection is better.
Respectfully Jim
 
Don't really know what the DOT standards and issues are at this time as until recently I didn't have a trailer or did any hauling myself. When the person I bought a Farmall M from delivered the tractor (he had hauled it all over the midwest to shows for several years) he had a short section of chain bolted to the bolster or frame rails (don't recall which) with a hook on the end. The chain was bolted tight against the tractor. He then had a binder chain attached to his trailer which was also attached to the hook on the small piece which was bolted to the tractor. He then tighten the chains with a binder. Each side of the tractor was done the same way with separate chains. He also mentioned it was best to deflate the tires somewhat to around half pressure or less so it didn't have a tendency to bounce going down the road when traveling. Hope this helps and unless responses back is probably the hook-up I'll use as well if I have the need to haul it later, Hal.
 
Some peoples welding will hold fine others I had much rather trust bolt. A 5/8 or 3/4 grade 8 bolt will pull side rails off of most trailers. One thing I sdedom see disscussed is type of chain, grade 30 chain is very limited in strenght I waould never trust anything less than 5/16 grade 70.
 
(quoted from post at 13:47:11 12/26/10) Some peoples welding will hold fine others I had much rather trust bolt. A 5/8 or 3/4 grade 8 bolt will pull side rails off of most trailers. One thing I sdedom see disscussed is type of chain, grade 30 chain is very limited in strenght I waould never trust anything less than 5/16 grade 70.
Click to expand...

Whats wrong with 3/8 grade 40??? Just a bit more weight to handle.

Years back that is what we hauled steel coils with!!!!!!!!!!

From AW Direct

5/16 grade 70 4700# WLL

3/8 grade 40 5400# WLL

So my old chains should be better than the new grade 70 :p
 
Jim, I certainly appreciate your knowledge and your sharing it with this forum as well as being a must read contributor on most topics.
You mention welding - I have always had an issue with welding when used in a no fail-safe application like we are discussing here. I think most welding is done by folks with less then the required skills to be acceptable structural welding. I've just seen far too many farmers doing the "puddle weld" where something is just piled over a break or crack and is probably somewhat better then bubble gum in most cases. Without adequate test samples you can never be certain of the weld quality and actual strength when in use.
My background in my working years was commercial aircraft as an engineer with Boeing and we rarely ever used welding in an application where structural integrity was involved without numerous test specimans being analyzed in a lab and actual weld x-rays being likewise reviewed. I know these tractors are ground based vehicles but something breaking loose on a trailer can certainly become a catastrophe event. I would certainly feel safer using hardware with known strengths like graded bolts and the correct schedule chain for attactment to the tractor and trailer.
This response is no way intened to create controversey and being negative to welding on farm tractors but movement of heavy items and unknown possible events need to be considered when hauling these things on public roads. I am totally with you about not having those bolts extended away (as noted in one response) from the frame rails to prevent the paint from being scratched and is certainly not a valid reason for the additional stress applied to the bolts due to the lengthen moment at which the force is applied when chained down. Actual welding quality to the folks on this forum is something different to everyone and from my experience is certainly not an exact science, Hal.
 

Hal,

Your whole trailer is welded!!!!!!!!!!!

If you cannot weld then hire a pro for welding tie downs.

These are welded with a 6010 open root followed by 2 passes of 7018

p50774.jpg
 
Yes it is but those welders are certified and must meet specific standards which are enforced by the DOT most likely and steel meeting certain specifications. I'm sure the commercial trailers are also built to a a safety factor standard above anything they are expected to encounter. I don't recall ever seeing anything about a factory built commercial trailer being pulled in too by it's cargo but I've certainly seen enough about things coming off of trailers and into the path or others. The issues here are the unknown skills of individual welders along with the "old bed frame" materials they might be using in their attachments. Use of rated materials and attaching hardware is necessary when public safety is involved unless someone has an "oh well" or "I guess their number was up" attitude and a callous approach to others on public highways and in which case you best have lots and lots of insurance, Hal.
 
You may be right but I checked 2 different sources and they list 3/8 grade 30 at 2650 lb. working load and 5/16 grade 70 at 4700 lb. working load.
 
Don't own a welder and never weld anything myself and use only state certified welders when needed. I think you and Kevin are just looking for something to banter about and my comments were directed to the purpose of this thread on which is the safest manner to tie down and haul a SMTA tractor. We should concentrate on this thread and not individual personal attacks because you have nothing better to occupy your day, Hal.
 
(quoted from post at 14:22:45 12/26/10) You may be right but I checked 2 different sources and they list 3/8 grade 30 at 2650 lb. working load and 5/16 grade 70 at 4700 lb. working load.
Click to expand...

I listed grade 40 not 30.
 
You are right. I did not notice you said grade 40, most common chain I see is grade 30 have never seen grade 40 the source I checked called it marine anchor chain.
 
(quoted from post at 14:26:14 12/26/10) Don't own a welder and never weld anything myself and use only state certified welders when needed. I think you and Kevin are just looking for something to banter about and my comments were directed to the purpose of this thread on which is the safest manner to tie down and haul a SMTA tractor. We should concentrate on this thread and not individual personal attacks because you have nothing better to occupy your day, Hal.
Click to expand...

Hal,

My reply was not meant as an attack. You were implying that a bolt through a chain link is better than a proper weld the way I read your post.

An M weighs less than 10,000 so it it can be tied with 2 chains if you choose.

Most any tie down method is fine so long as there is not an accident or panic maneuver, that is when the tie down is tested.
 
(quoted from post at 14:14:57 12/26/10) Look like you are one of the good welders.
Click to expand...

I have been welding for 35 years but am not a professional, if I am not confident in my ability I go to a pro myself.
 
Kevin, You are probably a very good welder and your welds would probably be fine. The issue we have on this forum is that everyone is not of your experience or have your ability. When welding is mentioned it is fine at any level if used on an implement or such which never leaves the farm. If it fails just pile on more weld and give it another try. I'm restoring some old 2 point fast hitch implements and see the quality of welding that most people are capable of doing and in no way is that acceptable for use on components tieing down a tractor for transport on public highways. I just wanted to provide some engineering facts and approach to help those who are less skilled and versed in the safety factors involved. The originator of this thread will likely review all the comments and figure out what is best for them. I truly enjoy reading what Jim has to add to this forum and tried to make that very clear up front. The welding thing cannot be graded until an event occurs that tests it's strength and then it is too late for do-overs, Hal.
 

Hal,

You bring up some good points. I have seen many poor welds myself and in that event a bolt in the frame would be stronger!!! I had a factory built trailer a few years back that I had to re-weld some of the joints as the welder run off the joint and left it!!!!!!!!!!

I was partly trained by a professional welder many years ago but decided that welding full time was not to my liking.

Now I work for a welding company in a supervisory type role. The welders that we employ are all trained and have to test to certain standards depending on the weld in question.
 
Kevin, at Boeing in those areas where structural welding was performed on the airplane, test specimans of the same lot of material were fabricated and included with the parts which were to be welded. Those test specimans were welded at the same time the assembly took place using the same weld material and done by the same welder. Those specimans were subjected to several laboratory non-destructive and destructive tests to determine the strength of the weld. The actual weld was also x-rayed for a look and analysis of the actual fusion of the materials by the welder. The lab results, x-rays and welder certification data are permanently stored in the completed records of the airplane longer then the aircraft is in service. We were certainly building too and having to meet different specifications then we are discussing here but that experience has enforced my feelings about welding by novices in lieu of using mechanical fastening hardware and components of known and documented strengths. I hope you enjoy your job as much as I enjoyed my almost 40 year career with Boeing as I wouldn't have traded a day of it for some other line of employment, Hal.
 

I'm sure that aircraft is a interesting field when you are trying to save weight and still make a long life unit.

The pipe welding stuff we do is all done to the appropriate ASME welding codes.

The bulk of standard pipe is is just schedule 40 or 80 carbon steel welded to a specification.

The food grade stainless and high pressure stuff is very specialized more like the aircraft welding you describe. We have to have weld coupons, weld mapping, welds stamped by the welder and of course record keeping.

I sub some work to a boilermaker and that procedure is a whole nuther can of worms!!!!!
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:55 12/26/10) We were certainly building too and having to meet different specifications then we are discussing here but that experience has enforced my feelings about welding by novices in lieu of using mechanical fastening hardware and components of known and documented strengths.
Click to expand...

Hal,

I forgot this and edit is not working.

It would be nice if manufactures would put a proper tie down point on machinery.

My Kubota is bugger to tie down. About the only way to tie the rear is with a shackle on the draw bar. The front frame does have a spot to get a chain on.

The larger Sky Traks an such that we rent all have tie points on all 4 corners.
 
Hal I believe you need to go back and look at my post again. I was replying to Kelvin not you and it was meant as sincere compliement on his welding.
 
Sorry about that. Yes, looking at Kevin's welding of the hook it certainly does appear to be suitable for the task. I still like bolts and other hardware with documented strength values which everyone can understand. I thought you were making a comment to me and am very sorry about the mis-read and comment, Hal.
 
I agree in every way. My post on a weld was intended to be taken as a weld onto 1/2" structural plate with a weld I would put on it, (not to the tractor, ever) Assuming a good weld is troublesome. But some things just are standard operating procedure. I assumed the owner would have an appropriate weld made. Jim
 
You should be looking for "machinery lifting eyes" not eyebolts. Fastenal has them with both male and female thread.
 
Actually, it's grade 30, 43, 70, and 80, which is certified for overhead lifting. Sometimes it's stamped on the chain G3,G4, G7, or G8. And if you can't see on the chain where it is stamped, if the DOT feels like getting nit-picky, it defaults to G30.
 
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