Intl 434 - funky hydraulic line

Troy Schubert · Dec 13, 2010

I'm having some hydraulic problems and working through some of the potential problems. One thing that doesn't quite look right is this rinky-dink hydraulic line going into the front of the reservoir. Anyone have a IH 434 or IH 424 to compare against?

JimB2 · Dec 13, 2010

Hi Troy, normally that is one piece high pressure
steel line from output of hydraulic pump. The most
common way of installing the spool valves for a
front loader was to replace this one piece steel
line with a two piece steel line with hydraulic
hose fittings on the ends. Some farmers would not
pay the $$ to IH for this two piece steel line and
would cut a section of of the one piece and braze
hydraulic fittings on the ends. The end coming
from the hydraulic pump would be connected to a
hydraulic hose going to the inlet of the loader
spool valves and the outlet would go the the line
going into the hydraulic housing. Then the dump
line would be connected into the hydraulic filler
hole at the rear of the seat.

JimB

Troy Schubert · Dec 13, 2010

OK, Jim... I understand what you're saying. My main concern about that line was the size of it and wondering if it would restrict the flow. But now I have another concern... I do have a front loader and it's plumbed similar to what you're saying, but I don't have a dump line into the reservoir. The only attachments to the reservoir are the high pressure line (previously called "rinky dink line") and the outlet (low pressure) that goes to the pump. The dump line should come from the low pressure side of the FEL spool valves, right?

Troy Schubert · Dec 13, 2010

OK, Jim... I understand what you"re saying. My main concern about that line was the size of it and wondering if it would restrict the flow. But now I have another concern... I do have a front loader and it"s plumbed similar to what you"re saying, but I don"t have a dump line into the reservoir. The only attachments to the reservoir are the high pressure line (previously called "rinky dink line") and the outlet (low pressure) that goes to the pump. The dump line should come from the low pressure side of the FEL spool valves, right?

armand tatro · Dec 13, 2010

I am making an assumption here so I hope not to confuse you but here goes. In the days before the power-beyond option We would cut the pressure line coming from the hyd. pump and reroute to supply hyd. pressure to the added loader valve. The return line from the added loader valve now became a pressure line and supplyed pressure to the orginal tractor valves and the return line from that valve dumped hyd. oil back into the resvoir like it was orginal designed. I have one farmal M, a farmal 560D, and a M&M M5 that are plumped this way and the hyd. system works good. As for the looks of that "rinky-dink" line some red paint will make that area blend in and will look good. What exactly are the problems with your hyd system? Have you changed your hyd. filter lately? My 560 hyds. acts reel goofy when the filter needs changing. Any questions?? Armand

JimB2 · Dec 14, 2010

Hi Troy, as Armand said that was usually method to
plumb a loader. Over the years we had 434 with
1501 loader and 384 with 1550 loader and now my
brother has a 3230 with 2250 loader and they all
had a double spool valve with high pressure from
pump going in left side and high pressure out left
side to the hydraulic tank and third low pressure
dump line out the bottom of spool valve to a pipe
T fitting into the filler plug of hydraulic
reservoir behind the seat. The 3230 is slightly
different but still has the three hydraulic line.

The reason for the third line is to allow both
hydraulic spool valves to be operated together, ie
rotate bucket while lowering lower arms.

JimB

karl f · Dec 14, 2010

The bad thing about non power beyond plumbing is that if the next valve in the line is operated, the line between becomes pressurized and if the first valve body is used, its cylinders will be trying to dump against pressure instead of draining freely into the reservoir. Most simply, The pressure would be equalized on both sides of the piston, so the cylinder could not move. I could imagine even weirder things happening if the downstream valve body is regulated at a higher popoff pressure...

The "wrong" way was pretty common however. You can see all kinds of older tractors with only a simple in and out add on valve upstream of the factory system. Obviously It worked despite what hydraulic experts today say (i'd follow power beyond advice for new installations). I don't think the real need for power beyond came about until implements and attachments started having more than one hydraulic line/pair. You were using one component or the other, not all at the same time.

karl f

armand tatro · Dec 15, 2010

Karl F.: All 3 tractors that I have added this to work ok. The valves that I added are 3 spool loader valves with float postiton on one spool. I have never been in a position that required both valves to be operated at the same time. By the way the first time I used this type of setup was when I needed to dump the pup trailor that I was pulling behind my Ford LN700 grain truck.The farm tractors have a total of 6 valves and the grain truck has 2 valves. I have had no problems with these setups and would not make any changes. Armand

Troy Schubert · Dec 17, 2010

primary problem was slow hydraulics that progressed to no hydraulics before I put it in the garage to work on it. I now have the rear end tore apart to fix an oil leak, so when the hydraulic reservoir goes back on the tractor I"ll try to troubleshoot hydraulics. I got the Blue Ribbon manual on hydraulics so I know what to check. I"m going to clean filter (upon dis-assy, it was only slightly plugged, only 10% of total area of filter plugged / 90% open)), double check that fast/slow setting is "fast", fresh hytran filled to capacity, then try again.

The only odd thing I noticed upon dis-assy was when I looked inside the top inspection cover of the reservoir, I can see one end of the "safety" chain is free and wedged between the 3 pt cylinder and the hydr reservoir casting. I have to figure out where this is supposed to go and fix it.

Troy Schubert · Jan 30, 2011

Hi, All and thanks for your comments back in Dec. I"m now done with my work in the differential and put everything back together. I have 3 gallons of fresh hytran in the reservoir and clean filter. Moved some snow around today with the FEL. I notice 3 things:
1/ I have some leaks around the filler plug and drain plug even though I tightened them good. Fluid that leaks out almost appears foamy.
2/ hydraulics still seem slow.
3/ there is a fast/slow setting on the hydraulic head and it doesn"t seem to make any difference whether I have it on fast or slow, still runs the same speed.

Per my previous posts, I only have 2 attachments to my hydraulic reservoir: 1 on the front right (brake) side drawing fluid out of the reservoir, and #2 at the center of the reservoir (the rinky-dink line in above pics) which is the return to the reservoir (high pressure) and supplies pressure to the 3pt hitch. there is no drain from the FEL to the fill tube on the hyd reservoir.

neblinc · Feb 4, 2011

Hey Troy!
The fast slow knob is for the 3 pt hitch only I am pretty sure.
And you should have a return line from your FEL somewherre.
You did see my pic of the connection under the seat, another post I think.

I am in limbo right now on mine, could not figure out why my power steering was hard to turn and squealing. Found that the spindles had no thrust bearings left and was binding up, parts on the way. Got new rear tires & rims and stopped all my leaks so far.

Randy

Intl 434 - funky hydraulic line

Troy Schubert

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JimB2

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Troy Schubert

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Troy Schubert

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armand tatro

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JimB2

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karl f

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armand tatro

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Troy Schubert

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Troy Schubert

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neblinc

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