Looked at tractor today...generator problems. Expensive??

RTR · Dec 5, 2010

I went and looked at a Farmall Super A with the 6 volt generator (picking it up tomorrow actually). It had the voltage regulator (square box) mounted on top of it. When I started the tractor it seemed like it barely had enough power to start it, and if the tractor didn't run so well, it wouldn't have. There is an 8 volt battery (which I would think would have more power than a 6 volt battery), and it just seemed WAAAY too weak to me. While it was running, the ammeter read on the negative (left) side, and read around the -10 mark on the left side.

Otherwise the tractor has been "restored" and is flawless otherwise. A local guy that specializes in Farmall offset tractors has it. What am I getting into, and how much will it cost to fix approximately. THANKS.

WSJ · Dec 5, 2010

Have you seen these 6 or 8 Volt alternators for $130?
10Si Series 6 or 8 Volt, Negative or Positive Ground Alternators.

http://www.alternatorparts.com/10si-all-in-one.html

Farmallhal · Dec 5, 2010

I'm not an electrical expert here but I've run into the same problems and it is usually the connections somewhere between the battery and the starter. Start with making sure you have heavy gauge battery cables between the battery and starter as they should be 00 in size. Any good auto parts store can make them up to the correct lengths with soldered terminals. Run the ground directly from the battery to a starter to frame mounting bolt. Make sure all your connections between the battery, switch and starter are all clean, bright and tight. The charging or lack of will be addressed by others using Bob M's or John T's troubleshooting guide as they have been posted on this forum at least weekly, Hal.

old · Dec 5, 2010

Restored??????????? Or just fixed up. Sorry hate the term restored since few understand it means to bring one back to what it was new. As in restore!!!!!!!!!!. That said an 8 volt battery is at best a band aid fix for other problems. Best to fix it and go back to a true 6 volt system and if doing that $100-300 to do it right or switch it to 12 volts and that is $100

Bob M · Dec 5, 2010

Answer is "it depends". Best case scenario is a battery charge (free) and perhaps a new voltage regulator ($40).

More likely however you will also need a new 6 volt battery, voltage regulator and new heavier, battery cables - about $150 or so.

And if the generator is bad, a rebuild will run another $100 - $125.

---

Incidentally I would replace the existing 8 volt battery with a new 6 volt regardless. Over the long haul it will cost less to find/fix the problem that caused the previous owner to install an 8 volt battery in the first place!

RTR · Dec 5, 2010

If you don't mind me asking, what is your parts and price breakdown within the $100 conversion to 12 volt?? I do know the alternators from the auto parts chains are around $40 with core. What else is there though?

RTR · Dec 5, 2010

......And of course a 12 volt battery for about $60 plus. Is that all I would need?? I wouldn't need a new starter, coil, ammeter, wiring, etc?

Farmallhal · Dec 5, 2010

A 12 volt battery will be your biggest expense but there will be other things, like a different coil or ignition reisitor, something to excite it to charge, pulley change, mounting hardware, wire to intergrate into the existing tractor wiring, etc. It all adds up and then you have a tractor that doesn't have a known wiring diagram and can't be understood by anyone (like my BIL's M) as changes get incorporated into the system to "make the 12 volt work". Your tractor will work fine with a 6 volt system if you locate and fix the problem component or components, Hal.

gene bender · Dec 5, 2010

Clean all the connections mite need to add new brushes and bearings in the starter its not that hard to do. Starter sw could be bad then go thru the generator same new brushes and bearings polarize and keep it neg ground and it will be just fine. Your battery could also be bad take a hydrometer reading ao all cells. You dont need 12v to make that engine start and if the starter is weak the 12v could finish it off. I work on them from time to time pluss have several As and Bs all on 6v and they start whenever i need them down to below zero like last winter as two of them are my snow removing tractors i have three driveways to keep clean.

RTR · Dec 5, 2010

You are correct about the 6 volt system. This is a NICE tractor, and I had to pay dearly for it. Therefore, I am on a TIGHT budget these days, and I'm trying to fix the problem for $100 or less. Those generators can be pricey to fix. WHen I get the tractor tomorrow, hopefully one of you guys will be kind enough to "guide me though" the troubleshooting.

gene bender · Dec 6, 2010

The generators arent that hard to fix unless the fields or the armature is shot. When you take it off see if it will motor then we can go from there.

mkirsch · Dec 6, 2010

Look up John T's generator troubleshooting guide. It takes you through step-by-step with several tests you can do without taking the generator off the tractor.

I cut-n-pasted it to Microsoft Word, printed a copy, and I keep it in my letter series I&T manual so I can take it out to the shed and refer to it if necessary.

I only ever used it once, to diagnose a bad regulator. Replaced the regulator and the generator has worked fine for the past 3 years.

When you get the tractor home, put the battery on the charger overnight. Start troubleshooting the next morning.

sgtbull · Dec 6, 2010

I've got a 6v,one wire, self exciting alternator, already IH red I'd sell. Ready to install and go....$75 and shipping.

sgtbull · Dec 6, 2010

I've got a 6v,one wire, self exciting alternator, already IH red I'd sell. Ready to install and go....$75 and shipping.

billde · Dec 6, 2010

(quoted from post at 20:36:57 12/05/10) Clean all the connections mite need to add new brushes and bearings in the starter its not that hard to do. Starter sw could be bad then go thru the generator same new brushes and bearings polarize and keep it neg ground and it will be just fine. Your battery could also be bad take a hydrometer reading ao all cells. You dont need 12v to make that engine start and if the starter is weak the 12v could finish it off. I work on them from time to time pluss have several As and Bs all on 6v and they start whenever i need them down to below zero like last winter as two of them are my snow removing tractors i have three driveways to keep clean.

Curious as to why you advise neg grd when it should be pos grd??

billde · Dec 6, 2010

(quoted from post at 15:52:09 12/06/10) because a automotive type alternator will not tolerate positive ground.

believe it or not, your starter will run the same direction on negative ground.

If you are going to give advise, at least read the post! Gene is telling him to rebuild his original components. My question is, why change polarity since the system was pos grd from the factory.
Yes I.m quite aware of starter rotation. Also the coil wire would need to be changed as well as the ameter when changing polarity.

RTR · Dec 6, 2010

OK!! I got the tractor home and the seller showed me somthing that might have been part of the problem. On the light switch, the decal reads: "L-H-D-B". The setting was on "L" yesterday. Today when he showed me that, we put it on "H", and the ammeter showed that it was charging.

Once I got it home, I looked at it more closely. When at low idle, the ammeter reads in the Negative side. Once you advance the throttle, it reads about 5 amps on the CHARGING SIDE. The gauge looks like the one pictured. Do you all think the system is working fine, or still might need some attention. I think I want to keep this one original 6 volt too.

RTR · Dec 6, 2010

Picture.....

RTR · Dec 6, 2010

gene bender · Dec 6, 2010

there were lots of positive ground alts made both 6 and 12v

RTR · Dec 6, 2010

Does anyone happen to have the link to John T's troubleshooting guide? I have been looking on here for a while and can't find it in the forum.

Also, any ideas/answers to my findings that I just posted?
THANKS!

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Any advice as to where its working correctly?? Read my last post since I"ve gotten it Home. Also, is appreciate the link to john t"s guide you all are talking about. I can"t seem to find it on here. Thanks guys.

AL Farmall Boy · Dec 7, 2010

I actually have 12 volt on all 48 of my tractors except an early 140, and a 1952 Cub. They both have always worked fine since I've had them, but I personally like the 12 volt simply because they have more power and they don't sound/act like they have a dead battery. When most people are looking to purchase a tractor, they aren't familiar with the 6 volt system, therefore they think something is wrong with it, or they are "scared of it".

In regards to your last question/post; I really don't have a good suggestion because my 2 tractors haven't given any problems. I am sure one of the experts on here can help you out further in deciding if it is working properly or not. I'm also not sure of John T's Troubleshooting Guide. I tried searching for it using the search feature, and had no luck.

billde · Dec 7, 2010

(quoted from post at 09:29:27 12/07/10) oh woff woff, billde. I'm aware of gene's advice. I was simply offering the man an alternative.

Furthermore, the next time you have the inclination to smart off to someone, I suggest you find someone who will take it. No one made you any authority here, and you have no right whatsoever to chastise anyone.

Andy

Number one, the question that I asked was not directed to you.
Number two, your answer was incorrect.
Number three, your believe it or not answer may have been cute in your mind but I've been working on tractors for 50 years and am well aware of that fact.
As far as chastising you, get over it!

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Gosh, why does it seem that every post I read; someone gets into an argument! Haha, I promise I'm not putting up posts to get one another mad, I just need some pointers. I just don't know why everyone is "on edge" lately.

billde · Dec 7, 2010

(quoted from post at 16:35:46 12/07/10)
Gosh, why does it seem that every post I read; someone gets into an argument! Haha, I promise I'm not putting up posts to get one another mad, I just need some pointers. I just don't know why everyone is "on edge" lately.

My apologies to you, my retorts are in no way directed at you or your post.

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

(quoted from post at 05:19:36 12/08/10) it wasn't intended to be cute. you asked a valid question, I answered it.

But I won't make that mistake again...sheesh!

Andy

No, I haven't been offended at all, I was just saying that I hate to see everyone "getting into it" lately. It seems that most people (regulars) have a bad attitude lately, and I don't know why.

HEY GUYS, I snapped some pictures tonight of the Super A in question in this post. I took them when it was dark, so forgive me if they didn't turn out as well. Just thought I'd show yall what I just brought home.

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Pictures......

billde · Dec 7, 2010

Very nice indeed!
also like it's offsping in yellow&white!

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Why thank you Billde!! Yea, that is a 1972 IH Cub you see in the corner. I also have 2 1949 Cubs re-done, as well as 2 1949 Super A tractors redone. One of which is pictured, and the other is being put back together and should be done in a couple weeks.

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Andy,

PM me. I would like to ask you something regarding a tach drive.

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

Email: [email protected]

Dellbertt · Dec 7, 2010

Is it just me or does something smell fishy around here lately.
I take it "RTR" and "AL Farmall Boy" are the same person.
I notice they are giving out the same email address.

Dell

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

AL Farmall Boy is actually my grandson. Just trying not to show a connection between us for the sake of being fair and for everyone else on the forum (no favoritism toward ideas, etc). Having that it seems the people on here are sooo strongly opinionated, and have a tendency to be rude toward things; That's all. We do use the same email because I let him email stuff for me as I barely can operate this here website and keep up with other things. haha

RTR · Dec 7, 2010

As well, I have let him use my account from time to time because recently he "messed up" a post on here and it got scattered on the message board. After all was said and everything, he had gotten his feelings hurt and didn't intend to mess up the reading for everyone; therefore I let him use my account so no "hard feelings" were directed toward him; as he had felt. Maybe thats why it seems as we are the same person, yet 2 differnt people in 2 places.

billde · Dec 8, 2010

(quoted from post at 07:13:40 12/08/10) although I personally pefer 12 volt systems in field/work tractors, that tractor looks factory correct. As long as it's charging and starts good, I would leave that one alone. that is a nice tractor, worthy of show.
Andy

Andy, I too apologize, I took your comment personal and I should not have.
I agree that on M and larger the 12 volt is more reliable and gives better cold weather starts. Like Gene, my experience with C and below the 6 volt works fine if maintained. Now, after all this I'm stil curious as to why Gene advised switching polarity with original components?

RTR · Dec 8, 2010

(quoted from post at 20:20:49 12/08/10) thank you. I tend to get a little grouchy when the weather gets cold. I'm stuck indoors and cant play with my tractors!

Andy

Thank you so much for the kind words. I do too think its a nice tractor. Andy, I sent you an email about the tach drive by the way.

Looked at tractor today...generator problems. Expensive??

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