M Shepard Diesel engines Guy Fay please

james rumph · Nov 13, 2010

Guy:

Question what was Shepards role in there motors being installed in the "M" .

I was at a show this last summer and there was a M that had one in it. The motor was painted orange and the rest of the tractor was the normal red.

The same gentelmen that owned it also had to Shepard tractors with the same motors.

He told me that internatinal was buying them from Shepard but they failed to preform like they wanted so they built there own tractor to make use of the motors .

What is the story behind this ?

Bill Lisbon · Nov 13, 2010

That is not the way it was. Shepard made a converstion kit for the Farmall M. International had their own diesel engine found in the MD.

james rumph · Nov 13, 2010

If that was the case what motor was in this M i saw that was painted Orange.

This was a "correct" restoration i was told .

Bill Lisbon · Nov 13, 2010

It was probably a Shepard Diesel, These diesels were built in Hanover, Pa. They were built in a 2, 3, 4 cyl versions. I think the 3 cyl was used in the M.

james rumph · Nov 14, 2010

I went to ask.com and did a search !

Sheppard is still running to this day .

In 1949 they built a 3 cylinder conversion that the dealer would install or your self i guess.

This was a hole motor that replaced the 4 cylinder gas .

There is supposed to be only one W-6 with the conversion per the page i read .

They did point out they didn't do them for long and there rare.

So the M i saw was the conversion kit , so the gentelmen that owned it sence new must have had the dealer do it way back back when.

He was in his 80s i'm guessing and was sharp on all the facts. I always thought the conversion kit was to convert the gas 4 cylinder to diesel not a hole motor .

I will look for the photo and post it if i did take it, i almost sure i did .

Great topic , i was fun looking for the info.

Hope Guy has some more facts.

agpilot · Nov 14, 2010

Hi James: I saw a Farmall M with a "Shepard" engine in it a couple years ago. The conversion was the whole engine block and not just a few parts bolted to a M block. There were Shepard diesel tractors built/sold in the 1950s because a neighbor about 4 miles from us had one. In the early 1940s the Farmall MD diesel engine was VERY high priced... so shepard had a chance since it was cheaper.. but gas was so cheap back then that it took a lot of years to pay for buying a diesel even if it was just an engine replacement.. Besides that, the mind-set of farmers just after the "great" depression of the 1930s was to NOT buy anything, if possible. The MD was hard to sell early on and farmers were not inclined to spending more money on taking care of a high priced engine. We had a MD so I had an interest in any other diesels around home back then. By the way, there was a huge change in using money now compared to back 50-60 years ago. Cash was King back then. Nobody bought on credit, if possible back then. Now it's "Get rid of it" and buy a NEW one right now. Amazing how much has changed in equipment but also in the way people handle money now. Not many consider the big change in the mind-set of todays farmers and how much money they throw around.. The idea of a replacement engine doesn't have much of a chance today.. quick, buy a whole new tractor now. ag.

D Slater · Nov 14, 2010

picture

D Slater · Nov 14, 2010

picture

D Slater · Nov 14, 2010

1949 to 1958 they made tractors and power units.
Think they rated the 3 cylinder kit for a M at 32 horsepower at 1650 RPM. By 1958 lots of farmers had rebuilt there M tractors and were making 10 to 25 more horsepower than that.

John M · Nov 14, 2010

I was always under the impression that the Shepard was a conversion kit, not a factory thing, sinmce IH did make their own diesel, BUT I have also heard of, I dont recall the company now, that had a diesel for retrofit, and accually ordered several makes of tractors without engines to fit their enignes into. There was a show on the RFDTV a few years back that featured one of these conversions on a Farmall 400.

agpilot · Nov 14, 2010

Hi D Slater: Yep, that looks like the Farmall M with a Sheppard diesel engine in it, that I saw at a threshing show a couple years ago. My comments, in a post below, mentions the difference in mind-set of farmers back then due to very cheap gas.. and also a carry over from the 1930s depression during which everybody learned that nobody bought anything unless they were almost forced to... back then I remember farmers working in the tool sheds to clean and re-gap sparkplugs for the umteen time rather then just buying new plugs... so buying a whole new engine block would have been a huge concept to swallow.. Now it is simple, just buy a whole new tractor. Yep.. Times-are-changing. For myself, I liked the idea of a replacement diesel engine as a possible choice. Thanks for posting your pictures of Sheppard engines. ag.

james rumph · Nov 14, 2010

Agpilot:

I should have worded that a little better !!!
I went on Sheppards website and saw all the tractors they built . They built tractors for while , several models.

What i was trying to say was that the conversion wasn't offered long due its poor performance.

The one i saw was strange looking, it was restored so all the detail was neat and clean.
The same gentelmen was a collector and had 35 tractors in the show .

I was talking with his son that said it took all week to get them all there.

He also had a old Fordson with the track conversion kit on it from 1920 i think. They found it in a barn in the U.P of Michigan in which they had to cut a hole in the side of the barn to get it out.

This was also a full restoration , it had been used for logging so it had a big winch in the front.

This man had a eye for the od and strange ones , very cool ...

John - OH · Nov 14, 2010

Took these at the SCRAP show in Gibsonburg, OH this year.

james rumph · Nov 14, 2010

"Bingo", that is just like the one i saw.

Great now i know i'm not nuts , i was starting to wonder if maybe i had it all mixed up.

The Sheppard tractors themselves are butt ugly.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

I have heard it said that the Shephard Diesel instantly turned your M into an H.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

As stated International had nothing to do with the Sheppard conversion engine.It was designated model 6M by Sheppard,it was a 3 cylinder,indirect injection Diesel.Sheppard also made 4 models of tractors.The SD-1,SD-2,SD-3 and SD-4.The SD-1 is the rarest of all with production believed to be less than 20.Wendel Kelch ones one of these.SD-2 and SD-4 production was around 200 each.The SD-3 was the most common of the Sheppard tractors wsith production of less than 2000.The 6M conversion engine was designed to fit the M chassis,and had very little in common with the SD-3 tractor engine.About the only interchange of parts were the pistons and injectors.Block,heads,crank,inj. pump,etc. were different from the SD-3 engine.The early 6M conversions actually used a timing chain and the later ones had gears.Sheppard never Nebraska tested their tractors,so hp estimates are sketchy.Sheppard rated their tractor as "2 plow" or "3 plow"or "4 plow" tractors.The story is the SD-4 was sent to Nebraska for testing to try to compete with the John Deere 70 for sales.Supposedly the Sd-4's hp. numbers would't compare to the JD,so it was withdrawn from the tests and never certified.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

Very true about cash is king.One of the things that led to the Sheppard tractors demise was Sheppard had no floor planning for their dealers,when JD and IHC were doing this.If you were a Sheppard dealer,all transactions with the factory were cash.

Larry B 1486 · Nov 14, 2010

Did these diesel engines start easy? I guess they were a direct start engine and no glow plugs? What HP did a M have with these motors?

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

That was Sheppards claim to fame that they were the first direct start diesel tractor.They have a toaster wire set-up in the intake that you pre-heat,then it has a hand pressure pump to spray fuel onto the hot wire to vaporize the fuel.It works good to a certain extent if you have good batteries and can sustain cranking speed.Sheppards have extremely high cr of 16:1.I've owned many Sheppards,still have a bunch and there like any other brand,some start easier than others.Good batteries are a must,though.There was still a lot of unknown about Diesels when Sheppard started building these engines in the 30's.They believed that low injection pressure and high compression was the way to go.Nowadays we know better.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

Larry,I have an old Taylor dyno that I ressurected out of a Case dealer many years ago.It's pretty stingy and one day we put the SD-2 on it and it barely lifted the needle.IIRC it made about 25hp.The SD-3 did a little better,been a long time ago but I think it's around 35.My SD-4 doesn't have a pto on it,as it's a wheatland,but a good friend of mine has a SD-4 that's been in his family since new.We put it on a steam show dyno and made in the mid 60's and held it.Sheppard tractors had no glow plugs or compression releases.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 14, 2010

Sorry,I mean't 22:1 cr,I don't know how to edit these posts.

Ken Ind. · Nov 16, 2010

We at the Illiana AntiquPower Associatiopn are featureing Sheapard as one of our feature tractors this year . We would like to welcome all Shepard stuff to our show . You can find the dates and times on our website at illianaantiquepower.com Thanks Kenny

M Shepard Diesel engines Guy Fay please

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