Farmall M vs. WD 45 and John Deere A

How did these three tractors compare when plowing? What were the strengths and weaknesses of each model?

A good M will run all over an A, but I think a WD 45 will give an M a run for its money, if not out pull it. I haven't been around a Allis that much, just know what I have been told. I do know athat around home an M will pull a 3-16 plow with no problem, but and A would have a hek of a time with it, unles someone had "worked" on the tractor for more power.

I'm thinking a WD45 has more horsepower but not certain. One thing I do know about a WD45 as they are pretty light in the rear end for plowing. I used one one year with 3-16 plows and couldn't plow very deep without the wheels slipping and that was with wheel weights.

we had a plow day....all kinds of tractors. a well weighted wd45 put a huge beat down on everything in its class there! plowed deeper and faster. my h couldn't come close, no green ones in sight. just what i recall.

Major weakness in the WD 45 is that it is orange. The A has a similar disability of a different shade.

Appearance aside, I'm not sure anyone ever got used to the sound of a hard pulling A. The A was supposed to compete with the M, and if I remember right had 320 cu in.

I have spent time on all three, owned two of them. The WD-45 will out pull the others, more HP. The only drawback is lighter weight, and smaller diameter tires. I have wider rims, tires, loaded with fluid, and wheel weights to use that power.

the WD45 biggest asset in plowing was the Snap-coupler hitch. I knew a farmer that had a snapcoupler 3 bottom plow but the plow had no trash clearance so he only used to plow soybean stubble. When he plowed cornstalks he used a Oliver 2 bottom trailor plow. With the Snap-coupler hitch you could make use of its power. Without it the tractor did not have enough weight to make use of its horsepower. The IH M and the JD model A both had more weight and bigger tires to make better use of their horsepower. Armand

I love to listen to hard pulling A and G is even better, I was brought up mostly on H and M but we had JD A, B and G at one time or another.

(quoted from post at 16:18:05 05/14/09) I have spent time on all three, owned two of them. The WD-45 will out pull the others, more HP. The only drawback is lighter weight, and smaller diameter tires. I have wider rims, tires, loaded with fluid, and wheel weights to use that power.

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The WD 45 was built in the timeframe of the SM and 60 both of which outpull it.

I've used all three. 8 hours on a A the sound drives me nuts. The WD 45 is to light weight. The M has a smooth sound and I believe the M will out pull the WD weight for weight. They have started local tractor pulls here and I am going to take my super M June 12th and see what it will do. Most of the tractors around here are JD's. AC's are few and far between around here. I grew up with all three in central Texas.

The ugly orange thing has a little bit more HP than the Farmall M, but its lighter on the back, so it won't get as good of traction. Get a Super M and it will do a much better job, around 45 HP at the drawbar, the Allis has about 39.

put all three in the same field,plow the same depth, equal hrs for each tractor and old red should have the most work done.

You ought to know damn good and well, that such a question brings out color blindness in folks!

I've had more green ones than the rest, but pound for pound...the orange one will out pull the the green or red one.

Having said that, I'd rather run the red one than the green or orange ones.

The green one will outsell either the red or orange tractors.

I wouldn't give two hoots in hell for a thumping 2 cylinder if I had to farm with one, and sitting on the WD45 is a PITA...the clutch is soooo easy to reach (not).

My dad is now an old man and I'm not from last spring's hatch either. One thing dad said that never left me is, "Son, the good old days, is RIGHT NOW! God forbid I ever have to go back to what we had years ago." That is one piece of wisdom I never disagreed with.

(quoted from post at 16:56:44 05/14/09) How did these three tractors compare when plowing? What were the strengths and weaknesses of each model?

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Had an uncle with a WD-45 and until he weighted the heck out of it, it just spun it's wheels pulling a pull type plow. Dad had an older (1940) A and an M... of those two, the M was much better, but Dad also had a couple of JD 60s that would keep up with it. WD-45 needed a lot of added weight, the M single rear weights and the A and 60s had no added weight.

Bring your WD-45 down here and we will have us a plowing match. Hehehehehe! I bet the old M spanks the WD-45's ARSE.

Everyone has their own opinions and all I can say is that at one time we had several Ms, a Super M and a G John Deere and everyone given a choice would run the G. I personaly liked the sound of the G. What is music to some ears is annoying to others that is why some like Bluegrass and some like Classical.

WD45 probably wins against an M.

A more accurate comparison would be between the WD45 to the 400/450 and the John Deere 60. With the "snap coupler vs fast hitch vs three point" setup on the plow instead of the snap coupler vs a fixed drawbar. The 400/450 wins, hands down - more power, weight, larger tires and the 2 point system to put it in the ground.

George,
Not unless that M has been really worked over.

depends on the year of the A & the M, both had a couple SIGNIFICANT hp increases along the way. early A-late M, late A-early M equals different winner. nebraska will tell ya that. by most measure a 60 was just a fancy A...... the sound is what i live for, NO desire to run a tractor of any color if it has more than 2 cylinders! lots of us poor folks with the Green Fever have the sound as part of our heartbeat. If your a red or orange guy be glad at least for that! lol. Jd's big advantage here is weight distribution & fuel economy except with the G. kinda like bikes- u wanna "harley it" or "rice it" on the sound!?

depends on the year of the A & the M, both had a couple SIGNIFICANT hp increases along the way. early A-late M, late A-early M equals different winner. nebraska will tell ya that. by most measure a 60 was just a fancy A...... the sound is what i live for, NO desire to run a tractor of any color if it has more than 2 cylinders! lots of us poor folks with the Green Fever have the sound as part of our heartbeat. If your a red or orange guy be glad at least for that! lol. Jd's big advantage here is weight distribution & fuel economy except with the G. kinda like bikes- u wanna "harley it" or "rice it" on the sound!?

It"s been so long since I heard from you George, I figured you had died...or just didn"t have anything to say......hehe!

I know where 5 gutted WD45"s are sitting....but if one could be had and made "right"....meaning hitting on all 4 like it should......I"d try to get it and take you up on the challenge.

I"ll never claim to have rode as many miles on a tractor of any color as you have. But, I have spent time on a WD45 and watched them work for countless hours. For what they are (size/vintage) I have never seen anything that will hang with one. Hands down, the Farmall M is the comfort king compared to the Allis and Deere.....I was on an M ONCE. Johnny"s will beat the fillings out of your teeth.....you ever watched a big 2 cylinder bounce the front tires while sitting still? The Allis makes you sit spread eagled to reach over to the clutch....some masochist must have designed it. In fact, I think the machine was designed first and a seat for the driver added later! That M rides like you"re on a bar stool...up high and not hunkered down. Hitch 3 -14"s on a WD45 and wind it up.....and see if you can keep up with it on the M.

Well,I know Id rather ride the deere or Farmall,the 45 makes an OK Hay Raker if You have no other choice.As far as comparing the wd45 to a 400,450 Farmall,I cant see it My wide front 400 has 281 cubes and weighs in right at 7100 lbs,and has a far superior tire size over the wd45,but the two get compared because thats all Allis had to offer at the time,and if you want to talk same era as the allis on the JD side,I think an old 70,or a good tuned 60 for that matter is real good.The wd45 has no TRUE live power,but the snap coupler hitch won some fans.There is still a lot of used parts for all of them.Ive parted out all differnt colors.The JD and IH come apart a lot easier,which means they also go back together easier.Id go with the M Farmall,unless the A had a good 3 point,but it'd have to be a late model A for me to pick it

I have a good set of 3 X 14 little Genius plows just built for my old M. Hehehehe! I also have a buddy with a pair of so called good WD-45's. maybe he will let us use one next spring when I plow corn ground and we can settle this once and for all. Hehehehehe!

I love to turn ground. Reminds of the good ole days.

Not many stock M's around in the last 30 years or longer. Everyone I have torn down for years has had overbore pistons in them. I did tear an H down last winter that was still stock.

George, you don't suppose the little orange ones are still stock after that time, do you ? Granted with a drawbar plow the match would be much closer, but with the snapcouple plow and a good working traction boost set up the 45 will gain a quarter mile in half mile fields in one round. And it will be pulling 3-16s to the Ms 3-14s. BTDT many times and I love my IH tractors, (3)F20, F12, F14, SM.

(quoted from post at 10:02:14 05/15/09) Hands down, the Farmall M is the comfort king compared to the Allis and Deere.....I was on an M ONCE.

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I can tell you that if you run a later model A or 60 all day it's more comfortable than an M or 400/450. I have never run a WD or WD-45 long enough to know, but they are not that comfortable for a short time. I have run a WC some and that "loosey goosey" gear shift will drive you nuts.

Tom,
If you really want to go plowing with that era tractor, you need to throw in the DC Case, pretty much superior to the others, more lugging power than the M or SM due to the long stroke, 3 bottom to the A 2bottom, with the eagle hitch could pull mounted or drawbar plows where the 45 worked best with the snap coupler plow. The DC just needed a 5 speed or more transmission.

My buddy takes at least one of his WD-45's to the tug(stone boat) pulls with me every year and he has yet to ever even finish close to my M or the other 2 or 3 that show up. Just sits and spins. WD-45 won't pull 3 X 14's here much less 3 X 16's. I have a D-15 that has it's hands full with 2 X 16's. Is a fine tractor though. We baled lots of hay with it years ago.

I'm too young to remember these tractors in thier prime. I only know what my Dad told me when he was alive. We had a 47 A with 3X12". Worked fine.Next door had a SW4 with 3X11 ace bottoms. He liked it but used more fuel. Dad's uncle had a WD with 2X14" then WD45 with 3 bottoms mounted.The 45 was really good but AC hotrodded those tractors too much.It twisted off PTO shafts and burning valves on the forage harvester.The Allis probably used the least fuel.

You are not considering the best puller of the possibilities. My father in law used a farmall M on 3X12" in clay. A breakdown caused him to hitch up a Massey Harris 44 Special to finish up. The Massey really made the M look weak. Used a lot less gas too.

(quoted from post at 11:18:02 05/16/09) It twisted off PTO shafts and burning valves on the forage harvester.The Allis probably used the least fuel.

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Must have leaned them out to get the power. I don't know that my uncle had any real trouble with his WD-45 except he had an F-20 before that with a 3x14 plow. When he tried to pull that plow he did nothing but spin his wheels until he added calcium and weights... then it did okay. This was in fairly hilly clay soil.

This is the lie about IH comparisons. The M should have to be compared to the John Deere G. The JD A should be compared to the Farmall H. The JD B should be compared to the C Farmall.

Then you can never say that the Farmall M can outpull a JD G. In fact our stock G can outpull everything IH made up to through and including the 450.

(quoted from post at 17:40:05 05/14/09)

(quoted from post at 16:18:05 05/14/09) I have spent time on all three, owned two of them. The WD-45 will out pull the others, more HP. The only drawback is lighter weight, and smaller diameter tires. I have wider rims, tires, loaded with fluid, and wheel weights to use that power.

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The WD 45 was built in the timeframe of the SM and 60 both of which outpull it.

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Exactly. The WD-45 came out in I think 1954? It would have competed with the Farmall 400, and JD 60. If you want to campare to an M or JD A, you would need the straight WD.

(quoted from post at 13:18:01 08/20/10)

(quoted from post at 17:40:05 05/14/09)

(quoted from post at 16:18:05 05/14/09) I have spent time on all three, owned two of them. The WD-45 will out pull the others, more HP. The only drawback is lighter weight, and smaller diameter tires. I have wider rims, tires, loaded with fluid, and wheel weights to use that power.

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The WD 45 was built in the timeframe of the SM and 60 both of which outpull it.

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Exactly. The WD-45 came out in I think 1954? It would have competed with the Farmall 400, and JD 60. If you want to compare to an M or JD A, you would need the straight WD.

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The 45 came out in 53' with 43hp. The 300 and 400 came out in 54' with 38 and 50hp. The 60 was out in 52' with 40hp and the 70 in 53 with 48hp. The Wd45 falls in between the models from IH and JD. The Super M came out in 52' with 46hp which is real close to the WD45. Now just because there are hp differences doesn't mean the 45 wasn't considered in the same class as some other models but I wouldn't consider the 45 to be in the same class as the 400 or 70 but in reality it can compete very well with each. Especially with an Allis mounted plow. The 70 and 400 could also have mounted plows but without draft control they were pretty much useless which would be why they didn't sell many.

My uncle used to tell of when he got out of the Army in 53 and went to a field demo comparing a 60 to a 45 pulling this farmers 3x16 Oliver pull-type plow. The AC dealer and 45 showed up with the 45 all weighted and ready to go and so did the Deere dealer with their 60. The each took turns pulling that plow against a stop watch. The 45 beat the 60 by over a minute on the first go around. The Deere dealer adjusted and tuned the 60 and sent it out again. The 60 did no different as the first time. Then the 45 took it's second turn. The mechanic running it took off again in 2nd gear and when he got about half way down the field he stopped. My uncle thought something had gone wrong and it wouldn't look good for AC. But after a couple seconds he took off again but this time in 3rd. That 45 blew the doors off that 60. The Deere dealer tried a couple more passes and then gave up. The farmer, who had been a long time Deere owner, claimed the 45 was all hopped up and still bought the 60 but his brother after that made the switch to Allis. That's what sold my uncle on Allis.

Before my family had owned Ford and Fordson and F series Farmalls and even Case and had no allegiance to any brand. My uncle had driven about every make for different neighbors. My Dad grew up on an M and new Super M. What does he still drive today. Old WD and D17. The 45 is what sold my Dad too.

I've tractor pulled for years also. No big thing. Just my old D17. Looks rough but runs good. Bone stock. I've cleaned up on many stock M's and Super M's, 450's and 400's, 70's and 720's. I stick to power tracks and not slippery gravel ones.

Speaking of stock tractors, I would say it would be extremely rare to come upon a stock M or Super M or 60 or 70. I know for a fact, having worked parts at a CaseIH dealer, that IH didn't service a stock kit for the M or Super M since at least the early 1960's. The M got the overbore to match the Super M and they both got the domed high compression kits since then giving them about 50 to 55hp. I know most 2 bangers have been bored out by now due to not having sleeves. Combine that with M&W kits and power blocks and there have been no stock kits for 50 years for IH at least and probably Deere too. Compare that with Allis WD and WD45. I also worked at an AC shop and bought a kit for my WD ,oh, about 15 years ago and it was standard bore and standard compression. Since then that has changed but up until then unless you asked for an up grade or used something like M&W you got a stock engine. Very few WD's ever got the 45 crank and now if you want a WD kit from AGCO you get D17 pistons which actually lower the compression. About half the engines I've taken apart for WD's are standard engines. Never ever saw a standard M or even Super M. Even so a standard 45 will look good against a hopped up Super M. Those are facts.

This is getting to be like us old farm boys arguing on the school bus :lol: . Dad had a JD A, Herbie's dad had a IH H and can't remember the kids name who's dad had a WD.

Just pointing out some facts some of which are known to only myself.

(quoted from post at 16:05:27 08/24/10)
Just pointing out some facts some of which are known to only myself.

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I've got a few of those myself :lol:

(quoted from post at 04:52:37 08/24/10)

(quoted from post at 13:18:01 08/20/10)

(quoted from post at 17:40:05 05/14/09)

(quoted from post at 16:18:05 05/14/09) I have spent time on all three, owned two of them. The WD-45 will out pull the others, more HP. The only drawback is lighter weight, and smaller diameter tires. I have wider rims, tires, loaded with fluid, and wheel weights to use that power.

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The WD 45 was built in the timeframe of the SM and 60 both of which outpull it.

Click to expand...

Exactly. The WD-45 came out in I think 1954? It would have competed with the Farmall 400, and JD 60. If you want to compare to an M or JD A, you would need the straight WD.

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The 45 came out in 53' with 43hp. The 300 and 400 came out in 54' with 38 and 50hp. The 60 was out in 52' with 40hp and the 70 in 53 with 48hp. The Wd45 falls in between the models from IH and JD. The Super M came out in 52' with 46hp which is real close to the WD45. Now just because there are hp differences doesn't mean the 45 wasn't considered in the same class as some other models but I wouldn't consider the 45 to be in the same class as the 400 or 70 but in reality it can compete very well with each. Especially with an Allis mounted plow. The 70 and 400 could also have mounted plows but without draft control they were pretty much useless which would be why they didn't sell many.

My uncle used to tell of when he got out of the Army in 53 and went to a field demo comparing a 60 to a 45 pulling this farmers 3x16 Oliver pull-type plow. The AC dealer and 45 showed up with the 45 all weighted and ready to go and so did the Deere dealer with their 60. The each took turns pulling that plow against a stop watch. The 45 beat the 60 by over a minute on the first go around. The Deere dealer adjusted and tuned the 60 and sent it out again. The 60 did no different as the first time. Then the 45 took it's second turn. The mechanic running it took off again in 2nd gear and when he got about half way down the field he stopped. My uncle thought something had gone wrong and it wouldn't look good for AC. But after a couple seconds he took off again but this time in 3rd. That 45 blew the doors off that 60. The Deere dealer tried a couple more passes and then gave up. The farmer, who had been a long time Deere owner, claimed the 45 was all hopped up and still bought the 60 but his brother after that made the switch to Allis. That's what sold my uncle on Allis.

Before my family had owned Ford and Fordson and F series Farmalls and even Case and had no allegiance to any brand. My uncle had driven about every make for different neighbors. My Dad grew up on an M and new Super M. What does he still drive today. Old WD and D17. The 45 is what sold my Dad too.

I've tractor pulled for years also. No big thing. Just my old D17. Looks rough but runs good. Bone stock. I've cleaned up on many stock M's and Super M's, 450's and 400's, 70's and 720's. I stick to power tracks and not slippery gravel ones.

Speaking of stock tractors, I would say it would be extremely rare to come upon a stock M or Super M or 60 or 70. I know for a fact, having worked parts at a CaseIH dealer, that IH didn't service a stock kit for the M or Super M since at least the early 1960's. The M got the overbore to match the Super M and they both got the domed high compression kits since then giving them about 50 to 55hp. I know most 2 bangers have been bored out by now due to not having sleeves. Combine that with M&W kits and power blocks and there have been no stock kits for 50 years for IH at least and probably Deere too. Compare that with Allis WD and WD45. I also worked at an AC shop and bought a kit for my WD ,oh, about 15 years ago and it was standard bore and standard compression. Since then that has changed but up until then unless you asked for an up grade or used something like M&W you got a stock engine. Very few WD's ever got the 45 crank and now if you want a WD kit from AGCO you get D17 pistons which actually lower the compression. About half the engines I've taken apart for WD's are standard engines. Never ever saw a standard M or even Super M. Even so a standard 45 will look good against a hopped up Super M. Those are facts.

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I think you have forgotten the D17 kits. We had a couple 45's both got the kit on the first overhaul as did all of them in my neighborhood. Yes it did make a big difference, we went from 2nd gear to 3rd, but the plow still cheated in hard pulling. The old no 8 IH plow stayed the same depth. Plus I could still walk upright after a long day in the field on an M or Super M.

I think you have forgotten the D17 kits. We had a couple 45's both got the kit on the first overhaul as did all of them in my neighborhood. Yes it did make a big difference, we went from 2nd gear to 3rd, but the plow still cheated in hard pulling. The old no 8 IH plow stayed the same depth. Plus I could still walk upright after a long day in the field on an M or Super M.[/quote]

D17 kits, that may have been the case for you but I've taken dozens of these engines apart and only one had a D17 kit in it. A 45 wasn't built to take the power of a D17 so I wouldn't recommend it.

I've never cheated a plow. You're meaning running it shallow, right? I have set many Allis plows and you should be able to set it so the depth stays constant but the weight transfer is still effective. Only time I ever have "cheated" a plow was at a plow day and it had rained heavy the night before and was lightly raining when we were plowing. Only one tractor of the group was able to keep the plow at a reasonable depth and that was an 820 with wheel weights stacked like I've only seen on a pulling track. Which by chance this guy was a tractor puller and had a lot of weights available.

No, I've done pretty well with my 45 and D17 at the local plow day every year and turned many heads showing up with a fully mounted 4 x 14 on that 17 tractor. A couple years ago it was real hard dry alfalfa ground and not a tractor there could pull the 3 x 16 pull-type without shallowing the plow. They had to switch to a 2 x16 old mechanical lift. As most of the tractor owners at this show either don't own a plow or don't bring one they take turns pulling one of these. The big tractors there that year were Super M, 880, 70 and 720. None had wheel weights either but when I showed up with the D17 and 4 x 14 the one guy I know real well said "you can try but that little tractor isn't going to pull that big plow in this ground". I thought I'd give it a try anyway. I tried at a field across the road first to avoid embarrassment and to set the plow as it was my first time using that plow. Seemed to walk right along in that alfalfa so I moved over next to the threshing machines and put it in 2nd gear low range and plowed 9" deep with that thing. We all checked with a tape. My Oliver friend said to me "if I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it". I was pretty proud but didn't let it show best I could. The Oliver guy makes sure I come every year with that set up and the whole show is a good time.

BTW I don't claim that all WD45 tractors out there are stock. I'd guess maybe half or more. I am claiming it would be very hard to find an M or SM or A or 60 that is stock. I have never found an M with the stock flat top 3 7/8" pistons. IH hasn't offered those kits for 50 years or more where as AGCO was still selling stock pistons and sleeves for WD's and WD45's as few years ago as 10 or 15 years. I know 15 years ago the stock kits were still available and were slightly cheaper than the upgrade D17 kit and you had to exchange the bearings as the D17 kit uses different mains. Today the WD kits from AGCO get D17 pistons with WD mains as do the WD45 kits which actually yields slightly less compression than stock WD pistons for the WD and more compression for the WD45 than the stock 45 pistons.

So I'd guess in years past most just put in either the stock kit or M&W which most Allis dealers didn't push. That's why I have only seen one WD45 with a D17 piston kit.

Getting off subject just a little, this year I couldn't make it with a tractor, but I went and there was an 8020 with a fully mounted 8 x 16 plow. The guy had built the plow himself to match the ones Deere had back then. Didn't get to see it plow but I guess he made a couple rounds.