Thinking about a Farmall H

Hello,

I bought an NAA about 5 years ago and have been using it for mowing and odd jobs ever since; I've really enjoyed working on it, but unfortunately it runs pretty good. So I think I need to get a tractor just to fix up...

There's an H for sale locally for $700. Running, but in rough shape and leaking a lot of oil. I've read what I can on the net, but that's no match for the expertise on these forums and I'd be grateful if you could answer a few questions for me...

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[*:1338fb3694]I (hopefully) know enough to ask about and check the basics, but is there anything specific to Hs or Farmalls of that era I should ask about or avoid?
[*:1338fb3694]I already asked about hydraulics and there are none; I know you can make or buy 3pt hitches for them but can you add a pump?
[*:1338fb3694]I'm looking for a big project that will keep me entertained (or pulling my hair out...) for the next couple years. Would a $700 H that probably needs a rebuild fit the bill? Or are there likely much better options out there? I don't have a way to transport tractors, so local is important (I'm near Dallas).
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Farmall H and Ford NAA are apples and oranges. Each have their place. I have had a Ford 640 and have several Farmalls, including a Super H and a couple of Super Cs. There may be a belly pump on the Farmall H. It will lift but then just drop something down (like a mower cycle bar). Lots of parts available for the Farmall H, but nothing special about the tractor as a collectible. You can put a pump on the PTO and a hydraulic tank on the tractor but you need to check into the cost. The 3 point hitch for an H is pricy. It is a good tractor pull something, dependable, fixable, and work all day long. But, as opinions will vary, your Ford NAA will do much more since it has a three point. $700 is a decent price for an H---of course, always depending on location and condition. Your NAA might go for 3x to 4x or more times that price depending on condition, and there is a reason for that.



Bookman

I think every H made came with hydraulics. 2 uncles I had, one had a 41 H, the other one had a 41 M, the both had hydraulics, Dad had a 48 H in the early/mid 50s, and ive got one now, they both have hydraulics. Now, they only used 1 way cylinders. The hydraulic would raise it, but the weigh of the impliment lowered it. Id say as a tractor that wont take but a 1/2yr max to fix, if its running, and you want to get with it, u cant beat an H. I like mine, and ive still got brake problems with it.

Thanks for the replies--just looking for something to turn a wrench on and interested in the Farmall because there's lots of non-collectible (cheap ) ones around and it's something different from another Ford.

I think I'll pass on an H that doesn't have hydraulics of any kind though. The 3pt hitch kits are expensive enough, but having to also get a pump would just be too much. And I would want a 3pt, if for no other reason then I imagine it would sell a quicker if I ever had to get rid of it.

How could I tell if this H has hydraulics? The guy selling it says it doesn't, but I'm not sure how much he actually knows about it.

I have some tear down pics on my website
http://thefarmallh.com/
Click on "Belly Pump Removal" to see what it looks like.

Randy

If you were going to restore a 57 Chev, would you do a 4dr 210, or a 2DBAHT? A FArmall H is the 4 dr sedan, a Super H or A SUper M (TA) are the 2 door hardtops.
Cost the same to restore both but the SUpers are worth about double when complete.
Adding a three point will only add value to the tractor if the buyer is going to work the tractor. Sure not needed for mowing parades and rides.



Gordo

Thanks for that link, Randy--those are some great photo galleries and it gives me an idea of what I'm signing up for.

And that's good advice, Gordo. I'll probably be passing on this H, but I'll keep my eyes open for a Super H (the M would be too big) and see what else I can find. The more I read about them the more I like the idea of an H (or Super H) as a project...

OK, found stage 2 Super H that's local for $1000. Missing the hood and the carb, and ...

There's antifreeze in the oil. He says there's no visible cracks on the block or head and he dropped the pan and didn't see anything looking up towards the pistons. He said that there were seals near the top of the sleeve that were the most likely culprit, but that of course there's no way to know for sure. Says he picked it up in a scrapyard and it looked like it had been in a pasture for a while before then.

I have no clue what other questions I should ask with something that major. Are there any diagnostics that can be done short of taking the head off?

I've looked at Super H prices on the net (and the price of a remanufactured head if it turns out to be cracked and a carb) and even with those problems $1000 still seems ballpark reasonable to me--but y'all would be in a better position to say.

(quoted from post at 22:13:31 06/14/10) OK, found stage 2 Super H that's local for $1000. Missing the hood and the carb, and ...

There's antifreeze in the oil. He says there's no visible cracks on the block or head and he dropped the pan and didn't see anything looking up towards the pistons. He said that there were seals near the top of the sleeve that were the most likely culprit, but that of course there's no way to know for sure. Says he picked it up in a scrapyard and it looked like it had been in a pasture for a while before then.

I have no clue what other questions I should ask with something that major. Are there any diagnostics that can be done short of taking the head off?

I've looked at Super H prices on the net (and the price of a remanufactured head if it turns out to be cracked and a carb) and even with those problems $1000 still seems ballpark reasonable to me--but y'all would be in a better position to say.

Click to expand...

Stay away from that guy, as he either knows absolutely nothing about Farmalls, or he is trying to pull one over on you! Farmall H's and M's have dry sleeve liners, meaning there is no seal to leak. It either has a blown head gasket or is cracked somewhere internally in either the head or the block. Should be the head gasket, but you can only tell for certain by pulling the head, but you might be able to tell enough by pulling the spark plugs. A badly rusted end on only one means you found the location, and it is probably a head gasket, but it could also be a cracked cylinder wall and sleeve, due to severe mechanical damage. If it does turn out to just be a head gasket, count on new pistons and sleeves at the very least in this situation as well as the gasket, (about $400-$500 total just to repair that one issue).

How does this guy know it is a Super H? Does it have the serial tag still on it and it is readable? If the tag is there, the serial number will start with SH, if it starts with FBH, it is a regular H, not a Super. Be sure to also look at the front end, as the Super will have a more squared off one with a vertical hole in each front corner, and the starter will be on the left side of the engine, looking from the driver's seat. Also, $1000 for a non-running Super H, especially one with anti-freeze in the oil, is too much, you can buy them on eBay running for from that on up to $2500 restored, more if they have certain rare options on them.

A non-running H is only worth $200-$300 at most (scrap value), while a running one can be had for from $400-$750, depending on its condition, unless it too has some super rare factory option, like duals, a low-low gear set, or some after-market options like a nine speed tranny or a two barrel carb and matching manifold.

Thank you, Bob. I'll ask him if he's pulled the plugs or do it myself if I can talk him down on the price and end up going to look at it. I want a long project so having to do a rebuild wouldn't bother me but paying too much on the initial purchase certainly would.

I think the guy is saying it's a Super H based on the serial number and the battery being on a box under the seat (I can see this in the picture). He also mentioned it had "all Y and Z codes" although I'm not sure exactly what that means. I'll double-check the serial number when I get there and also look for the things you mentioned.

(quoted from post at 21:05:47 06/14/10)

(quoted from post at 22:13:31 06/14/10) OK, found stage 2 Super H that's local for $1000. Missing the hood and the carb, and ...

There's antifreeze in the oil. He says there's no visible cracks on the block or head and he dropped the pan and didn't see anything looking up towards the pistons. He said that there were seals near the top of the sleeve that were the most likely culprit, but that of course there's no way to know for sure. Says he picked it up in a scrapyard and it looked like it had been in a pasture for a while before then.

I have no clue what other questions I should ask with something that major. Are there any diagnostics that can be done short of taking the head off?

I've looked at Super H prices on the net (and the price of a remanufactured head if it turns out to be cracked and a carb) and even with those problems $1000 still seems ballpark reasonable to me--but y'all would be in a better position to say.

Click to expand...

Stay away from that guy, as he either knows absolutely nothing about Farmalls, or he is trying to pull one over on you! Farmall H's and M's have dry sleeve liners, meaning there is no seal to leak. It either has a blown head gasket or is cracked somewhere internally in either the head or the block. Should be the head gasket, but you can only tell for certain by pulling the head, but you might be able to tell enough by pulling the spark plugs. A badly rusted end on only one means you found the location, and it is probably a head gasket, but it could also be a cracked cylinder wall and sleeve, due to severe mechanical damage. If it does turn out to just be a head gasket, count on new pistons and sleeves at the very least in this situation as well as the gasket, (about $400-$500 total just to repair that one issue).

How does this guy know it is a Super H? Does it have the serial tag still on it and it is readable? If the tag is there, the serial number will start with SH, if it starts with FBH, it is a regular H, not a Super. Be sure to also look at the front end, as the Super will have a more squared off one with a vertical hole in each front corner, and the starter will be on the left side of the engine, looking from the driver's seat. Also, $1000 for a non-running Super H, especially one with anti-freeze in the oil, is too much, you can buy them on eBay running for from that on up to $2500 restored, more if they have certain rare options on them.

A non-running H is only worth $200-$300 at most (scrap value), while a running one can be had for from $400-$750, depending on its condition, unless it too has some super rare factory option, like duals, a low-low gear set, or some after-market options like a nine speed tranny or a two barrel carb and matching manifold.

Click to expand...

I would see if he would take around $7-800 on that H and take my chances. If it really is a Stage II it is worth it bc it would have all the "nice" things. If you had to give any more you could not get out of it what you had in it.

(quoted from post at 07:12:37 06/15/10) Thank you, Bob. I'll ask him if he's pulled the plugs or do it myself if I can talk him down on the price and end up going to look at it. I want a long project so having to do a rebuild wouldn't bother me but paying too much on the initial purchase certainly would.

I think the guy is saying it's a Super H based on the serial number and the battery being on a box under the seat (I can see this in the picture). He also mentioned it had "all Y and Z codes" although I'm not sure exactly what that means. I'll double-check the serial number when I get there and also look for the things you mentioned.

Click to expand...

W, X and Y codes are the code numbers placed at the end of the serial number to indicate which options the tractor came with from the factory, or in the case of in the case of W2, X2 or Y2, it indicates that the tractor was sent back to the dealer at some time in the past to be modified from its original configuration, (like in converting a fuel tractor to gasoline, adding a high altitude piston set or perhaps a hi-speed reverse gear). There are no Z codes on the letter series tractor's serial numbers. The letter will also tell you what the tractor is, as the W codes were used on Wheatland tractors, such as the W-4, the X codes were for Farmalls, and the Y codes were for Industrials.

The Stage 2 Super H's main upgrade over the Stage 1 was the addition of live hydraulics, driven by a pump located between the distributor and the ignition drive housing, also, the distributor should be an upright one, not a horizontal one. This change also meant a new ignition drive gear, timing gear and front cover, as all were beefed up to handle the added stresses placed on the system by the pump. The hydraulic fluid tank should be under the gas tank. which is the reason the battery was moved to under the seat ala the Super C. All Super H's also had four inch longer axles than regular H's, thus giving an increase of eight inches over the adjustment range. Another thing to look at is the starter location, it should be on the left side as viewed from the driver's seat, where as the H had it on the right. On the carb, the choke lever will be on the engine side of the carb if it is the correct one. though, like most of these changes, that too can be faked with enough time and effort, but in the case of a junker, are not usually worth the trouble since the return will be so small.

Check all the casting codes on the major pieces to make sure they match, not the specific dates, which will vary, but the year codes, which for a Stage 2 should be Y or Z, which, now that I think of it, may be what he meant by Y and Z codes. If the rest of the casting date shows anything past October, the Y and Z codes may be mixed on the same tractor, but all should be within about 6 months of each other. You will find them on the axle housings, the front and rear casters (wheel hubs), the rear frame (tranny), the clutch housing/torque tube, front frame and front spindle. As for the missing sheet metal, any H metal will fit, but you will either have to find an original gas hood, (not too easy), or have the extra tank filler hole welded up in one from a fuel tractor, (even harder to do right without warping or shrinking the hood's metal, so pay someone happily who knows very well how to do this, like a professional bodywork man).

If you have pictures, post them here and I'll look them over for you, and yes, if it truly is a Stage 2, which started production in 1953, it is worth the money.