lawn mower oils

I have always been told to use 30 weight non detergent oil in a mower. well the more people you ask tells me no one person agrees much. Just put shell 30 nondetergent in mower and read the back of bottle and it says not for gasoline engines after 1951. What gives here. accel oil says do not use in gasoline motors ater 1930. crap so I go to briggs and they say use 30 weight non detergent and a multi blend like 10w 30 in colder climates. OK WHAT SHOULD I USE AND WHAT
IS RIGHT
Rich from NC

I'm sor of amazed that you finf non detergent oil period. I have pretty much settled on single weight 30 weight and around here that's tough enough to find. I stick with Pennsoil when I can and that has served me well. In a pinch I'll go to 10W-30.

If it is a relatively new mower, the manual is probably going to say 10W30. In which case 30 is probably ok. If you don't have a manual, see if the companies web site has one and do what it says. Non-detergent oil is good only for air compressors, provided the manufacturer says it is ok. NAPA still sells non-detergent. Forget it in all engines, old or new.

Ok, here is the scoop. Non-detergent oils are still produced for 2 reasons: air compressors and hydraulics. they can be used in engines, but not required. Don't let anyone tell you different. If they do, it is a bunch of unfounded crap. i could go into the history of lubricating oil, and when the SAE and HD certifications were added. Detergent oil is an improvement, but it should not be used in air compressors and/or hydraulic systems.

any internal combustion 4 stroke engine should use HD (detergent) oil. Brand of your choice. Multi-vis or straight weight. doesn't matter. 10-30 or straight 30 weight. once again, your choice.

What is the most important is that you change the oil regularly as appropriate for the usage. Whether you use Mobil One or k-mart special, it won't make one hoot if you run it dry or dirty.

If you ask me what I use, it is Wolf's head, straight weight. SAE HD 30 in the summer, and SAE HD 10 in the winter in my Farmalls.

Lawn mowers get SAE HD 30.

as always, IMHO.

I use the same oil in my riding mower as in my tractors. Rotella T 15-40

Tom, in my previous post when I mentioned air compressors, I forgot about hydraulic systems. BUT, we put 30 wt HD in our H's belly pump for years in the 50's. Don't remember any problems. Modern oils probably have more additives, though. I currently use detergent in my M&W pump on my M, although it gets little use.

I run shell rotella t 15W-40 in my Dodge Cummins, John Deere 5105 (50hp diesel 2005 model), troy built tiller with briggs engine (15years old),kubota ZD326 commercial mower,and my push mower,1947 H Farmall, 1948 Farmall Cub and my 1945 John Deere B. Never had an oil related failure in anything. I used to drive my self crazy buying and using many different brands and viscocities of oil. Finally decided enough was enough and followed the advise of an old diesel mechanic who told me stories about rebuilding Mac Diesel engines that had ran only Rotella with over 750,000 miles and every thing still looked good internally. Did the rebuild for the heck of it. Any way it works for me. No problems and gets rid of the hassels.

Kohler Command engines specify 10W30

Go here and read about Briggs oil;
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/routine_maintenance/changing_oil/

Briggs SAE 30 will be good in warm temps.
Briggs 30 meets certain diesel specs and gas up thru SL. Does not meet energy conserving SM Spec.

IH number one diesel oil is a very high detergent oil and is recommened for hydraulic usage in 30 wt. for pto pumps like used on the cyclo planters.

IH number one diesel oil is a very high detergent oil and is recommened for hydraulic usage in 30 wt. for pto pumps like used on the cyclo planters.

Problem Solved.

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CNKS, I am with you on that one. Just to clarify why HD oil is not the best for hydraulic systems. HD oil will foam a bit, and also hold air bubbles longer. HD oil will NOT, I repeat NOT hurt a hydraulic system. However, since it foams a bit and holds air bubbles it does not perform as well as non-detergent oil. under heavy work in a hydraulic system, it will not "respond" as quickly or "snappy" as hydraulic oil (in other word, the hydraulics will be spongy). BUT, it will not hurt anything, and you probably won't notice the difference. i doubt that the lower pressure systems on the letter series tractors would be bothered by it. I have always followed the HD for engines and non-HD for compressors and hydraulics. If the latest HD oils from CIH or others have been formulated differently as to not foam or hold air, then I too am learning something new.

i am amused and sometimes disgusted at all the "yapping" about the different oils for these older tractors and lawn mowers. Clean oil and filters with appropriate viscosity is more important than what brand, multivis, HD or non-HD, etc. If these were high RPM, high compression, hi-temp, high performance engines, you would be getting a different answer from me. Also, unless you are really working the IH letter series diesels hard, they do fine also with good, clean HD 30 oil. If all you are doing is showing, and not working the snot out of a tractor, keep your oil clean, filter changed, and the engine will outlast your lifetime.

I am not against the "hi-perf" oils (they have their use and purpose), but in the end, losing sleep over whether or not to use HD 30 in your Farmall cub or your Murray lawn mower is just plain hogwash (no offense at all to the original poster). sorry for the rant, but this gets under my skin sometimes. We have new collector's and "younger" people coming to this site for information and to learn. Hopefully we can teach them not only the "what" but the "why", and stear them away from the "shade tree mechanics".

Most everything people try to tell you about which oil to use is a bunch of flim-flam, designed to convince you to buy overpriced supposedly "specialty" oils for your various engines.

Look at the person who told you to use SAE30 non-detergent oil. He was made before 1951 too, right? That was the oil he used as a kid in the tractors on the farm. That's the oil he knows. That's the oil he's going to tell you to use.

His recommendation is not based on science or fact. It's based on some mythical, mystical voodoo that he was fed by his elders, who didn't understand engines or oils either.

What's the "right" oil? Look in the manual. Most modern lawn mowers will recommend whatever standard of 10W30 oil was around at the time the mower was manufactured, or better. It will be detergent oil.

If you don't have the manual, don't fret. 10W30 will be good enough, I guarantee it. If the engine blows up it's not because of the oil. The engine would've blown up no matter what oil you used.

Oil is a lot less fussy than the marketing people lead you to believe. As long as it is wet and slippery, it'll work.

Great info Tom, and others. Since were on oil, what is the weight of Hytran? It says- the manual, to use it on my 154 lo boy bull gears, which kinda seems to be too light in weight. It also says to use it in my trans, which is connected to the hyd, but I was just kinda confused. Maybe the lube properties and like a heavy gear lube?? Thanks, Steve

Tom,you said it better than I could. I do have non-detergent oil in one of my air compressors. The other is in the other half of my building in an unheated area, and is used mostly for painting as I don't want paint dust, etc in it, or theoretically it could explode due to sparks from the electric motor igniting paint fumes. In that one I use 5W30 synthetic in case I have to start it in low temperatures. Probably wouldn't hurt it with non-detergent, though.

i think people confuse "detergent" with "multi-viscosity."


-karl f

99.9% of engine oils on the market have some sort of detergent in them.

Steve, I think mkirsch said it well. If the manual reccomends that oil, then use it. The lubricity of oil and the viscosity of oil are not necessarily related. One of the reasons for gear lube being a heavier viscosity is the heat generated, and the metal to metal friction that occurs in the gears. Also, it does not have to "flow" it only has to cover the metal parts.

A "tacky" lower viscosity oil can be just as good as a lower-tack higher viscosity oil. We could discuss surface tension of the various oil blends, which will affect how much of the oil "sticks" to the gear teeth as the move through the oil sump at the bottom of the gear housing.

The best thing you can do is compare the price of a gallon of Hytran to a gallon of basic 80w90w gear lube. Pick the one that is easiest on your wallet. You won't be making a mistake which ever one is cheaper (if you are replacing the oil). If you are just topping it off, use what ever oil is already in the gear housing.

...If the manual reccomends that oil, then use it...

Click to expand...

I am not sure that is always the case. When we are dealing with these older machines there have been a lot of advancements in 60 years. ie hytran was not around It will work with SAE 30, but IMO hytran is better.

Thanks to Tom and all for the info. You are all a great help.

Steve

Great stuff Tom. Question for you though. With all the SAE oil ratings around, is there one that deals with "surface tension" or stickiness of oil to metal? If so, what number is stickier? I'm guessing at the GL ratings.

BC, you are starting to hit the edge of my current knowledge. While I can explain the physics behind surface tension, relating that directly to current specific oil composition/brands is a bit beyond me.

I do know that oils are formulated with different additives to modify tackieness, viscosity etc. depending upon their intended us. That isn't rocket science. What I don't know is all the current oil blends and what is used to create them. I would guess that would make an interesting Google search some night while you are bored and surfing.

Sorry I don't have a better answer. If you are really interested, here is a link to a journal article on the subject of surface tension and lubricity. While it doesn't specifically talk about modern motor oils, it gives you the fluid dynamics behind what I have been saying, and the principles are the same:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/p61u461k76910066/