Finally got my Super MD

After years of searching and saving I finally picked up my Super MD! She spent 15 years abandon in a farm field and the last 5 years in a barn. Carb needs to be rebuilt and the plug wires are missing but she runs on diesel, though she smokes some due to dirty injectors. I'll keep yall posted on the progress and I'm always open to input.

Good for you! Sounds like a good find. I stumbled on a SMD-TA a couple months ago, sitting out in a field. Haven't pursued it because All I saw was a place to throw money. Not something I need... I doubt very much the one I found is in running condition.

Ben

Ben,how is the MTA/plowing project comming?tractor fixed?field plowed?We may have bigger,newer tractors,but Ms rule!

Thats awesome! I really wanted a SMD-TA but this was one was only 3 hrs away and the price was right so I really couldn't pass it up. It is a place to throw money and another project that I can add to the list but every thing just lined up for it to happen. Where are you located Cub?

Just a couple of notes.

If they are not started on gas, they will nearly always puff smoke on one or more cylinders until warm. Not enough heat in the chamber(s). Start them cold with a missing plug wire to see this happen. Also, a cold cylinder may drown and stay dead until it pools enough fuel to start hydro knocking and try to break something. It's not pretty when it happens.

Injectors may be worn or too light in the break pressure, but dirt is usually not the issue.

Congratulations on the SMD! They are very interesting machines to work on to say the least.
What year is yours ?


Andrew

M diesel, thanks for the imput. She smokes all the time though a lot less now that I put injector cleaner in the fuel. She bogs down when under full throttle and really smokes. I haven't had a chance to go over it in detail yet. It's only been in hands for 48 hours.

Andrew, I've read a lot of your posts follwing your progress on yours and have learned a lot. It's missing the serial tag on the housing but the numbers on the motor show and the sheet metal show that its a Super.

Thank you all for your help.

I assumed that maybe the injects were dirty and I was not getting a good spray pattern from the injectors and it was causing the motor to run too rich and smoke. Sorry for my ignorance I'm new to working on diesels.

Well... Thanks for asking... But, I hate to admit defeat, I had to borrow a tractor to finish plowing. My MTA is still out of commission with a broken cam gear. Got a new one on the way finally but wanted to get my plowing done. Wish I had been able to finish with it, but mother nature won't wait for me, I'm afraid. Servicing my M to pull the disc around. I need to get my seed in the ground!

I spent all day in the cab of a JD 8300 landplaining for new alfalfa seeding at my day job. Woulda much rather been out in the weather on My ol' farmalls!
ben

Adam,

I'm currently living and working in the very far northern reaches of California. Or, as we like to call it, the "State of Jefferson" Google it, it's an interesting story. Great part of the world. Even if it is California...
That SMD-TA I found is in a fence row on a little dairy next to the farm/ranch I work on for my day job.

Where are you?

Ben

Ben, I live in Maryland, about 45 mins north of DC. Mostly farms and small towns. Thats a shame about the SMDTA. Maybe someone will get it running again. We don't have many around here. I can't even say that I've seen more than a handful at the tractor shows I've been going to over the years.

(quoted from post at 17:10:05 05/03/10) I assumed that maybe the injects were dirty and I was not getting a good spray pattern from the injectors and it was causing the motor to run too rich and smoke. Sorry for my ignorance I'm new to working on diesels.

Click to expand...

Just passing along some info to ya. With these old systems, many people spend dollars on things that aren't the real problem. Mostly all they do is clean and send it back. It seems that diesel shops will always take your money, regardless of how little service they actually performed.

Congrats on the Super by the way. I have the plain MD, a 51.

Adam I live in Harford County. I have a MD and a 400D. The MD was the first tractor I purchase and the 400D was the 5th. It came from New Park Pa. You'll like the super MD. Lot more power then the MD. But I still like mine anyway, sometimes it fools you. The 400D really has a lot of power and runs really well. Hope you'll enjoy yours.

M diesel, I would like to do all the work myself. Do you know where I can get parts for rebuilding the injectors? And thank you again for the all the useful info! I'm open to anything you can pass on.

Edgar, thats sweet! You're not that far from me at all! I've always been intrigued by these machines and all the engineering that went into them. I've waited forever to get one and can't wait to get her up and running like she should.

New parts don't really exist anymore. Some diesel shops still have old stock and can fix things. These injectors are really simple, and easy to clean. Sometimes they put up a fuss getting them out.

They use seals like a spark plug. Not easy to find. You can make replacements or have them made. Copper is fine. It should be annealed. For copper that means heated and quenched.

Injectors tend to wear and drop break pressure. Pressure is adjustable if you have the pump to measure it. They can be built from a grease gun.

Precups tend to erode away. IH uses a small chamber, called a precup to do the initial firing. It was a fine system back in the day, allowing IH engines to utilize low grade fuel. Remember that diesel was not a common commodity in those days, and the quality or consistency varied greatly. IH was able to run on fuel that nobody else could use, with no problems. I have documents explaining the effort that went into their diesel program and why certain things were done at that time.

There are 3 basic types of injectors, so be careful about buying them for spare parts. The early ones were made by Bosch. About 1946ish IH started making their own, but made the housing about 1/4 inch bigger diameter. You probably have this type. On the motor the fuel line attaches at the 9 o'clock position) Later they came out with an open face injector which fits in place but has different internals. Those are identifiable by the fuel line. Same fitting, but it attaches at the 10:30 position. That injector came along with the introduction of what is called the "B" pump. It has the big letters "IH" embossed on the top cover.

There are 4 different pump series that were used.
1) The original Bosch made through the WWII years.
2) The blank IH pump, IE no external markings.
3) The IH A pump, that came along in the late 40s, and is the most common. It has the big letter "A" on the side cover.
4) And finally the B pump, noted by the "IH" on the the top cover. Introduced in the late Farmall 400, and used in the 450, 650.

During the entire time, the original Bosch pump was available as a kit from IH. The old timers like it the best. Fine pump, but it cost more than the engine. Bosch had a plunger for each cylinder. IH switched to a single plunger and a distributor that feed the generated high pressure pulse to each cylinder. Each has their advantages. The Bosch has a better governor system, the IH is more cost effective and provides more consistent operation across the cylinders.

For maintenance in the IH pumps, there are several valve surfaces that can be polished up, but it takes care and precision to do so. Most all the internal pump parts are precision ground to fit. That makes things like plungers not interchangeable, but I have seen them cross over.

If the pump hasn't been trashed by dirt, most likely just cleaning it will alleviate most problems. The plunger and distributor valves are all fitted to ten thousandths of an inch. They tend to stick from dried fuel when left to sit. Also several of the needle valves used for pressure control also tend to stick if water has been present for any length of time.

The most common problem for is that the seal on the primary pump shaft goes away and leaks. It lets fuel leak into the fuel sump, which eventually fills up and overflows into the oil reservoir at the bottom of the case where the governor rotor resides. As the body overfills, the governor becomes flooded and no longer performs well.


One last thing. These IH pumps are all the same body, just configured for different models. The pump on an MD will fit and work on a TD6, TD9 or TD14. Adjustments need to be made of course, and the plunger should be changed for one with a different helix, but they will run. I have a picture of a plunger from a 450 and a TD18 and the only difference is in the plunger helix. And you have to measure to find the difference.

M Diesel, that was great! I've tearing through all my books trying to find any info that I could and have not been able to find much. That helped greatly! Thank you for taking the time to type it all out! I would be interested in getting the paperwork that you spoke of if you could tell me where to find it or any other info for that matter.

My tractor has the American Bosch pump... From what you said it sounds as if that was not the pump that originally came on the Super...

Thanks again!
Adam

An interesting thing about Bosch pumps, they continued making them for a long time, and parts are still available. I don't have anything that says how the tractor could be ordered, but I know someone who has the Bosch refit kit for the D691 in a TD18. It is a package deal with all lines and miscellaneous hardware. It would be possible that the tractor could have been ordered with that pump but was most likely swapped in later.

The Bosch pump is a bit of a maintenance nightmare by comparison, but has one distinct advantage. It is better at delivering rated fuel over the entire RPM band. The IH pump drops off below 1000 RPM or thereabouts, meaning power loss. Almost no power available at idle. The original IH pump basically delivers max fuel only at max RPM. Since the governor is mechanical and has to stop delivery at high idle, it tapers off fuel as the peak is reached. For most IH pumps the spec is 11% above rated RPM. If you ever wondered why the high idle numbers are kinda weird, factor in the 11% offset and you will always get a nice round number for the "loaded" value. The later B pump corrected some of the low RPM delivery problem.

For IH pumps, factor in the rising rate fuel delivery in conjunction with the falling rate governor shut down and you get a humped curve along the RPM chart. In a way it was one of the problems with IH diesels. The perception was that they didn't "lug" well. IH didn't consider lugging a feature. (And rightfully so. Oil usage at the crankshaft is speed sensitive) In the crawlers it lead to running them at higher RPM all the time. I tend to do it myself. When revved they kick butt and give a sense of serious accomplishment, but it is hard on the drive train.

I have a doc from a briefing at a hotel somewhere, but it isn't dated. It describes the process they went through in developing the gas starts. Not sure where it is right now though. The pile o stuff has gotten a bit out of hand in recent times. I'll have to search for it.

M Diesel, thank you so much for the info! It's been a huge help! If you ever uncover the paperwork you have I would love to get a copy of it! Thanks again
Adam

M Diesel, Thank you so much!