No Charge Cub

We have 1952 Cub and trying to troubleshoot no charge on the battery. Do these things have V/R like the Ns? Is that the V/R on top the generator?

Does that look like the original generator?
thx, Bill

it appears to have a cut out relay (small size)on top of generator. John T. is the eletrical goru over on the JD forum. most cut out relays just disconnect the battery with the ignition off to keep from draining the battery when not running. charging is controled through "low" and "high" charge switch settings on ignition switch. generator voltage output is adjusted by adjusting a 3rd. brush on the generator. good luck, d. coleman

It kind of looks like someone has permanently dead grounded the Gennys FLD post which should (if all else is correct n working) make her always be in the max high charge condition (may overcharge the battery???), such is sort of a farmers jury rig when the Low High (LHBD) light switch went bad, its supposed to regulate the charge Low or High depending on where its set plus a 3 brush genny is also used to limit charge rate. If all else is good she can still charge with the gennys FLD permanently grounded (If I see the picture correct) so if shes not theres likely OTHER problems such as the genny itself is bad or perhaps that Cutout Relay (that thing mounted and wired on genny) is bad or not well grounded. My pure "guess" is the genny is bad since she ought to charge with the FLD grounded (if all esle is okay)

NOTE I cant tell from the picture if the cutout is even wired right???? One of its terminals (GEN/ARM) should wire to the gennys ARM post (could be that black wire is, but hard to see) while its other (BAT) terminal should wire to the ammeter. I cant tell if that one left terminal on the cutout relay is even connected???? GET BOB M'S WIRING DIAGRAMS The Gennys FLD post (looks like grounded to genny in picture, should wire up to the LHBD switch NOT to the gennys frame ground)

MY ADVICE::: First look at Bob M's Wiring Diagrams to get her wired correct,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Polarize the Genny,,,,,,,,See if she charges ?????????

If NOT, run my Troubleshooting Procedure which in Para 5 shows how to see if non charging is a genny versus a VR or Cutout relay problem. Use the Cutout Relay portion in my troubleshooting procedure

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=farmall&th=665110

John T
John Ts Troubleshooting

With my glasses on this time it looks like the left side of the relay is wired to the genny, hopefully to its ARM post with that black wire???

If so, heres what Id try::::::

1) Before starting, Polarize the genny by using a lil jumper wire to momentraily flash jump from the right side of the relay (big red wire attached) to the gennys ARM post (hopefully where black wire attached, hopefuly to the left of the relay) you should get a small spark PS the right side of the relay (red wire) MUST BE HOT WITH BATTERY VOLTAGE TO GROUND otherwise there a wiring or ammeter problem...

2) Start her up n see if she charges??? if not, make sure the gennys FLD post is grounded (i.e. is that wire to back of genny a good ground???) by using another jumper wire from gennys FLD to a good frame ground DOES SHE CHARGE NOW???????

If still NO charge when still running, leave FLD grounded any by pass jump across the relay by wiring its left to its right temporarily and see if she charges then when running????????? If still no charge with FLD grounded anddddddddd relay jumped across (left n right connected) THE GENNY IS BAD OR NOT WELL GROUNDED OR THERES OTHER WIRING PROBLEMS

The Motor test in my procedure is another way to test the genny itslef

John T

Okay, thanks. I"ll give those things a try John.
Couple more pictures to help see connections. Cub is down at the lake so I"ll check these out next weekend.
Possible the cutout relay be bad?

John - Do I have FLD, ARM, BAT terminals right on this? Want to be sure when I test steps #1 and #2.
Is it possible that the FLD 'dead grounded' right to genny case?
thx, Bill

Well, the cutout relay at least looks wired right given the new pics. Even though the gennys FLD being direct grounded to the genny isnt kosher (see my other post) it should still charge.

You ask can the cutout be bad ?? yes it can but thats easy to check because when shes running you can by pass jump across it by temporarily connecting its terminals together n see if she charges then????? More often however, they can go bad by the relay contacts welding/sticking closed which causes a high current discharge when the tractor is shut off and drains the battery and overheats the genny.

Once you Polarize it (see my post) if she still dont charge even with the relay jumped across and the genny is well grouned and all else is correct???? the gennys is likely at fault, may need new brushes or has a bad armature etc. If the genny isnt producing the relay, even if good, never closes so it may be okay, Id still guess the genny itslef is the problem. The Motor Test in my procedure can help diagnose a bad genny..

John T

Nuther quick question. When I polarize the jenny, is it necessary to have the start switch on (and tractor not running)?
thx, Bill

It (relay wiring) looks correct, assuming thats the gennys ARM post that wires to the cutout and its the gennys FLD post thats grouned. Often the larger post on a genny is its ARM post, often there are A and F stamps by the posts. As I explained before the FLD grouned direct to the gennys case/frame isnt correct but she should still charge of all else is okay. Make sure the genny itslef and the FLD BOTH are indeed getting a good to frame ground connection, try some additional jumper wires if necessary, even to the grounded battery post to be sure. To be safe Polarize the genny as I explained before

JT

Start switch doesnt have to be on, momentarily flash jump the gennys ARM post to the hot BAT terminal on the relay for a spark. Of course the BAT terminal better read hot battery voltage for this to work as it wires to the ammeter. If its not ALWAYS hot with batery voltage she cant polarize or charge the battery and theres a wiring or ammeter etc problem

JT

Thanks John. I'll give these a try and post back with results. Appreciate it, Bill