Which Cultivision Models Best for Tilling

Kermit · Apr 8, 2010

Was considering buying a 140 for my vegetable and herb plots. Several people have told me the 140 will not work with a tiller or spader because they don"t have live PTO or hydrostat and the tiller won"t keep up with ground speed. Did Farmall/IH make any later models with live PTO that would work with a tiller?

John

mkirsch · Apr 8, 2010

Listen to your friends. They are telling you the truth.

The offset design was largely unchanged from the first A in 1939 all the way through the last 140 in 1976. There were minor improvements, and hydraulics were added along with a somewhat more powerful engine and a water pump along the way, but overall the basic drivetrain of the tractor remained pretty much the same.

1st gear at an idle is way too fast for a tiller on a 140. At idle the tractor would not be producing enough power to run the tiller anyway, and the tiller would not be going fast enough to do any good.

If you want to till, you need a modern tractor with a hydrostatic transmission that barely creeps along at full throttle.

Janicholson · Apr 8, 2010

I might get flack, but the newest thinking is that roto tilling is not the best for soil prep. Yes it makes fluffy soil, but it also is head on worms and biota. Just plow, or spade up only the places plants will be growing and leave all else compacted.
Jim

M Diesel · Apr 8, 2010

Not to throw a wrench into the works, but there was a creeper gear thingy made for those. Might be hard to find? Nothing works like a good hydrostat however. Being around 25 horse, a wide tiller might be a load. Others can provide an answer to that one.

Haas · Apr 8, 2010

The others are correct. The offset tractors, A,SuperA, 140, etc., are way to fast in low gear to run a rototiller properly. If you want to use a tiller with these tractors, you will need to get a tiller that has it's own engine. Then you can run the tractor engine at idle in low gear and maybe do a decent job. They did make creaper attachments for these tractors, but they are very rare. I've never seen one. For a rototiller, you really need a tractor that has hydrostatic drive or a creeper gear less than 1 MPH at pto speed.

CNKS · Apr 8, 2010

Any tractor with a TA. Or the later small tractors such as the 444 that has an 8 speed dual range transmission. As stated the ground speed of the offsets is too fast. Only advantage of a rototiller is that it is the only major tillage operation, provided you can get it in the ground. Ok for flower beds, etc, but not necessarily suitable for large areas as Jim says. I moved to a new property a 2.5 years ago and used a rototiller behind a rented New Holland Utility to prepare my 30000 sq ft or so lawn. Had to chisel it first to get the tiller to penetrate. I could have use a tandem disk also. Smoothed it out with a homemade wooden "drag", about 9 ft wide 15 ft or so long with 4 cross pieces, used 2x6 lumber, 2x8 would have been better. The drag is the way we smoothed up our vegetable farms for irrigation in the 40's-60's.

Wardner · Apr 8, 2010

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Here's a Cub with a speed reducing planetary drive positioned before the final drive on one side of the tractor.

One could also use the IH Hydro-Creeper for the Super A's thru 140.

The late great Hugh Mackay had no use for roto-tillers. If you search on "Hugh rototiller" you will probably find his words of wisdom. I think it involved crop rotation, cover crops (buckwheat, maybe), mulching, and leaving the plot fallow for a season. He claimed that rototilling reduced overall tiltch (?) and soil fertility.

Wardner · Apr 8, 2010

Now that I think about it, I don't think the Hydro-Creeper would work. The clutch needs to be disengaged for it to work.

Kermit · Apr 9, 2010

Thanks for all the great replies. While I agree with the posts about the destructiveness of tilling to the soil, it is still a better option than using a moldboard plow which turns the nutrients under. I'm transistioning from a corn/soybean field and the soil will need to have cover crops tilled and compost mixed in etc. If the soil were in better shape, I might be able to get by with some of the sustainable methods like only discing etc. I have also looked at spaders, but it looks like they would have the same issues as the tillers and they are a bit out of my budget right now and used units seem to be unavailable. The speed reducing planetary drive sounds interesting, but did they make any for 140 models and would one ever be able to even find one? I had never seen a Howard Rotovator on a Cub before--great picture. They do make tillers and spaders that are narrow and will operate in the 25 HP range. My uncle has an engine powered tiller, but he said it also needs to have a low first gear or it can't keep up. Maybe a chisel plow and a disc harow or one of the other methods mentioned earlier would be a compromise to be able to use older iron and still be somewhat sustainable?

John

LRTX1 · Apr 9, 2010

Kermit,

I think if your sold on the idea that you have to till the "140" is probably not for you.

With that being said, I think the 140 is the ultimate tractor for a small vegetable operation. Just be prepared to spend some coin on all the goodies that you would need to go with it, i.e. cultivators, planters, bedders, fertilizer distributor, etc. etc. Take this into consideration also before your purchase.

I am one of the fortunate ones, my grandfather farmed many years with a 140 and my father has been acquiring loads of neat stuff for the 140's over the past 30 years. We now have 4 of them, all in various stages of use and restoration.

The last 140 was built in 1979.

Layne

Janicholson · Apr 9, 2010

I would rent a rototiller for the initial prep, then use the alternate methods after establishing the green manure content, and consistency. That way the 140 would be very useful. Jim

sflem849 · Apr 9, 2010

(quoted from post at 22:27:41 04/08/10) Thanks for all the great replies. While I agree with the posts about the destructiveness of tilling to the soil, it is still a better option than using a moldboard plow which turns the nutrients under. I'm transistioning from a corn/soybean field and the soil will need to have cover crops tilled and compost mixed in etc. If the soil were in better shape, I might be able to get by with some of the sustainable methods like only discing etc. I have also looked at spaders, but it looks like they would have the same issues as the tillers and they are a bit out of my budget right now and used units seem to be unavailable. The speed reducing planetary drive sounds interesting, but did they make any for 140 models and would one ever be able to even find one? I had never seen a Howard Rotovator on a Cub before--great picture. They do make tillers and spaders that are narrow and will operate in the 25 HP range. My uncle has an engine powered tiller, but he said it also needs to have a low first gear or it can't keep up. Maybe a chisel plow and a disc harow or one of the other methods mentioned earlier would be a compromise to be able to use older iron and still be somewhat sustainable?

John

I respectfully disagree on the moldboard plow burying your nutrients. Your root zone on almost all veggies will go far deeper than the 8 inches that your mb will disturb and your disc/field cultivator will remix the majority of the plow layer anyhow. In the end your rototiller can be just as destructive at causing a "thinning" of nutrients in the plow layer with it's complete redistribution of the plow layer.

Wardner, not a big fan of the Cub with the tiller. The tiller doesn't cover the wheel tracks!!! You can see that the soil is compressed quite a bit deeper in the rear wheel tracks. I know you just posted it for reference, but I wouldn't like that situation in my garden.

Which Cultivision Models Best for Tilling

Kermit

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mkirsch

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Janicholson

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M Diesel

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Haas

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CNKS

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Wardner

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Wardner

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Kermit

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LRTX1

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Janicholson

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sflem849

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