Crank Starting

Can you hand start a tractor with distributor ignition?
Thanks

Yes and No.

I have an H and a B, both of which have distributor ignition AND have been converted to 12 volt with alternator.

I can crank start both of them BUT I must have a battery connected in order for it to work.
An alternator needs a current to energize the coils initially, after which it becomes self energizing (if you have it hooked up correctly).

If I remember correctly a generator has permanent magnets and therefor needs no outside current to begin generating electricity.

I think if you had a working generator it would start without a battery by hand cranking, but I'm not sure if that's right or not.

Sure you can, you might get arm broke as many have before you. H and smaller are fairly easy to hand crank IF evert thing is in good condition and set right.

The battery needs to have enough juice to fire the plugs. (even 10 volts will probably do) The process is the same either way. (unless the tractor is very old and has a spark control lever, which must be in the retard position for starting).
Correct timing is TDC for both. Jim

That's right, I completely forgot about having the timing set a TDC!

I wouldn't recommend trying to cranks start one without the timing set correctly. You could be in for a nasty surprise!

Well yes and no. Yes if the battery is good you can but if that is the case why. No if the battery is dead you can crank it till your blue in the face and the cows come home and it will not start. Also distributor type ignition do like to kick back and then in turn can/will cause you to get hurt if you do not hold the hand crank the correct way and even then it can still get you I know I spent time in the ER because of one

it sounds like everyone hear is saying the same thing, need a battery for the ignition, and be really careful not to break an arm. My dad crank started our MH44 once. It was a distributor ignition with advanced timing, no kickback, but there could have been.

You can crank start a distributer equipped tractor when the battery is "dead" enough that that it will not turn the starter, or barely turn it. If completely dead, no. I have done this many times.

What do I have to fill in the blanks?? Ya I could have said if the battery will not do more then try but that is a given isn't it??? Sorry if I do not explain it better ya not in a good mood tonight so sorry

I have hand cranked many tractors with magneto ignition but if i needed to hand crank a distrubitor ignition tractor i would slightly retard the ignition first. MJ

Let me see if I can summarize:

1.) For a coil ignition system, you MUST have a battery. If the battery does not have enough charge to turn the starter, it still may have enough to fire the coil. Hand crank start is definately an option (and a good one if out in the field).
2.)Voltage drop from the starter motor running reduces the voltage to the coil, and subsequently, the spark is not as "hot". Crank starting in very cold weather actually allows for a "hotter" spark with a coil ignition system(see previous posts where I have outlined how to crank start, and why it works).
3.) I have been crank starting all my F series and Letter series tractors for over 30 years. I have not broken my arm, and if you follow correct procedure, you won't. If you break your arm or other items, it is because you didn't know what you were doing, or were not paying attention. Period. Get lazy with any crank start attempt, and like anything else, you WILL eventually get injured.
4.) I prefer magnetos over coils. Always have, always will. With a mag, "Dead battery? No problem". The faster you turn a Mag, the better the spark (we can discuss the impulse setup on IHC mags if you wish). Now, on a distributor system, you can get spark scatter at hight RPM's, however, no stock IHC engine comes clost to that level of RPM's, so no issue there (a whole other thread on a different forum could be written about spark "scatter" and high RPM engine ignition applications).

In conclusion, "yes Virginia, you can crank start your coil ignition system tractor". requires that the battery have at least a little charge, i.e. the battery cannot be completely dead. If you have a good working stock ignition system, you won't break your arm if you follow the instructions on previous posts. IF you have a souped up puller-type setup with seriously advanced timing......... why would you even consider cranking......you can afford a new battery!!!! :wink:

as always, IMHO.

It is true that a generator is "self-energizing," that is, it doesn't depend on a battery to get it started charging. But....the generator produces very little current until it is turning pretty fast, so I doubt very much if it would produce enough voltage to fire a battery ignition system. Please.....make sure everything is timed right, AND keep your head away from the crank. Do NOT push down on the crank, or spin it, no matter what you do. If there is enough spark to fire the engine, spinning will not make any difference. In the "old days," people used to think that spinning the crank would produce a hotter spark (with a magneto), but at a certain point in their production (I'd guess by at least 1910, but don't have any facts on this), magnetos were given impulse starters, which 1) hold the mag back until the engine reaches TDC, or maybe a bit beyond TDC and 2) spin the mag to provide a hot spark. It is probably true that spinning a Fordson would have provided a hotter spark. The Fordson (and Model T) flywheel magneto had no kind of impulse starter, so the voltage could have been raised by spinning. A LOT of people forgot to retard the spark on Fordsons and Ts, and a lot of people discovered how much force is produced by an engine spinning backward. My father broke his arm by pushing down on a Ford T crank. 'Nuff said, I hope.

Len, I agree pretty much with what you are saying, however, to not confuse things, I was speaking about a magneto. I will state that no one will ever spin an engine fast enough with a crank (by hand) to have the generator put out enough voltage to fire the coil. Plus, spinning an engine with a hand crank is a big NO NO..............

And, as I alluded to, there is a correct procedure for crank starting by hand, which includes retarding the spark (F4 and E4A mags), engaging the impulse (E4A type mags), cupping your hand (no thumb wrapped around the crank handle), and only crank on the "up stroke".

I have seen waaaaay too many newbies just put the crank in and start spinning. I guess it goes without saying that if you don't know the correct process, then you shouldn't be attempting it. However, I will stay "on the record" that hand crank starting an IHC tractor is not a dangerous process if you have the tractor's ignition set correctly AND to stock settings, AND you follow the correct procedure.

Maybe it is just me, but I absolutely love firing up the F-20 with that deep, throaty sound when it first fires. Crank starting a tractor with the ignition set right is actually a very easy thing to do.........

IMHO.

If the timing is set to fire at TDC or later it is OK to hand crank. If the timing was set by ear it will end up advanced & will kick back.

About the getting hurt cranking tractors I am 70+ and started hand cranking tractors when I was about 12, ran hand crank F 20 all summer for several years from 12 up, and have never been hurt but I know they will bite you when you least exspect it. I doubt that anyone aactually checks timing every time they start tractor and it can and will change. I have driven for nearly 60 years was hauling logs, lumber, fertilizer etc. when I was 16 and have never had on road accident but know that I could any time.

I would agree it is a wise choice. It is not prudent to plan on being lucky.