Researching M before purchase

Hello fellas,

I'm new to the farmall forum but have been posting on the ford side since buying one back in October. Anyhow, I've always been facinated with vintage tractors and bought an 861 ford for utility but now I'd like to buy a farmall for a project rebuild. I would like to get a 1952 M so that I might be able to have 3 different tractors of the same age eventually once I add a deere to the mix. I'm wondering if you might be able to point me in the direction of good literature for info on the M or any input you may have regarding the 1952 model. Any thing to be concerned about? Features of that year? I'd ultimately like to use the tractor for parades n such and maybe a bit of snow blading just so she can keep on working so I'll need 3pt and would prefer live hydros just in case I have the itch to run a belly mower with her. Would like 12v or electronic ingition and power steering. Obviously it won't be all original. Many thanks to anyone willing to help a rookie get his feet wet in farmalls!!!

LC

Welcome to the forum, but technically speaking, asking someone to tell you everything about something is not "research." That's called "listening." Still, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there willing to talk about the subject, so you should make out like a bandit!

Right off, you probably picked the rarest year for the Farmall M. 1952 was the year that IH transitioned from the M to the Super M, and only a few thousand plain Ms were made that year, compared to the tens of thousands of Ms that were made each year in the years immediately after WWII.

12V, live hydraulics, power steering, and 3pt will never offered from the factory. They're all add-ons. While many tractors have some of the options, few have them all, and most don't have any of them.

Super Ms didn't have live hydraulics at all until 1953.

So.... Basically you're looking for a rare tractor with a rare combination of options... Hopefully you're willing to spend some money to add them.

Live hydraulics will run you $900 or so.
3pt hitch will run you $800 or so.

IMHO don't trust a used live pump. It was taken off for a reason. Used 3pts come up for sale from time to time, but they're snapped up as soon as they appear if they're the "desirable" Saginaw version.

You may have to look for quite a while to find what you're looking for, and I do wish you good luck.

Thanks, I am glad I refreshed before posting. My thoughts exactly. I almost wonder if he is trying to poke fun at Farmalls over Fords of the day???

Would the 1952 be a Super M?

Thanks for the quick replies. The year would be nice but I'm not completely stuck on the 1952. I guess I've made the assumption that the later years may have parts more readily available and be a bit more user friendly. All of the things I mentioned would be nice but are far from necessary. What I want most is a good solid M that can be a project for me to restore. Did the M have a year that is considered the quintessential M? Did they have any years that had issues with any component that I might want to be aware of? Is there any book or referrence guide for the M's specifically? Thanks again. LC

Not poking fun, just don't know much about the farmalls. From what I've seen in serial number charts, the M was made in 52 and they switched to super m in 53.

(quoted from post at 20:50:36 02/24/10) Thanks for the quick replies. The year would be nice but I'm not completely stuck on the 1952. I guess I've made the assumption that the later years may have parts more readily available and be a bit more user friendly. All of the things I mentioned would be nice but are far from necessary. What I want most is a good solid M that can be a project for me to restore. Did the M have a year that is considered the quintessential M? Did they have any years that had issues with any component that I might want to be aware of? Is there any book or referrence guide for the M's specifically? Thanks again. LC

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Farmall Ms were built from 1939 up to 1952, and then the super Ms continued until 1954. A few things on the '39 and early '40 models were a smidge different, but basically, an M is an M, and parts are just as easily obtainable for a Farmall M as they are for any of the older Fords.

(quoted from post at 12:52:38 02/24/10) Not poking fun, just don't know much about the farmalls. From what I've seen in serial number charts, the M was made in 52 and they switched to super m in 53.

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Nope.

They made both in 1952. Back then manufacturers made one kind of tractor until they ran out of parts, then they started on the new model. They didn't switch over production on "January 1st" like they do now.

As far as your parts availability, it almost doesn't matter. The M was largely unchanged from mid 1940 through 1952. The only real oddballs were the 1939 and early 1940 tractors, and then it was only with the transmission cover and PTO. The newer PTO and transmission cover will fit on the older tractors.

Here's another little tidbit for you: Some of the last 1952 Ms had factory disk brakes like the Super M. I've heard numbers ranging from 300 to 2000.

If you want confusing, look at the H in 1953. They made FOUR variations of the H that year:

1. Plain H with band brakes
2. Plain H with factory disk brakes
3. Super H with battery under gas tank (referred to as Stage I)
4. Super H with live hydraulics and battery under seat (referred to as Stage II)

jimmy here is my 52 m. has factory disc brakes, wide front, engine service meter off the distributor drive.
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pardon the dirt and grease, but its a working tractor!!
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Write me an e-mail if you'd like to see an original IHC spec sheet for the M--I have a brochure from the 40s. The Nebraska test results can probably be obtained online now, from the U of Nebraska test lab.
I literally grew up on IHC tractors made before the H and M, and then spent mamy hours on two Hs my father bought later. I lusted after an M, but my father never seemed to think he needed one. A few years ago, I had a chance to put a number of hours on a Super M, which I loved. But--take into consideration that even though I think of these tractors as "modern," they lack a lot of the features and comforts of current-day tractors. The Super M takes some effort to steer in tight places at slow speeds, although it is a delight in the field at normal working speeds. The feeling, sitting up there looking out at the world while listening to the beautiful music coming from the engine, cannot be described.
I spent years with a power lift that depended on having the clutch engaged. To lift the cultivators at the end of the row--assuming the corn went right to the fence--you had to shift to neutral, let the clutch out, lift, shift back into gear, and so on. I personally would not have a tractor without live hydraulics--having to stop and shift to neutral in order to raise an implement is definitely something from the 30s.
As my grandmother used to say, "I don't want to tell you what to do.....but.....(then she told me what to do)," unless you're really attached to the original M for a strong reason, think seriously about a Super M (quite a bit more power, incidentally, and lots of torque).

Here's an anecdote from my past: As a kid, I used to love to visit IHC dealers after the H and M came out. So beautiful! This story will make more sense if you remember that the F-20, that workhorse brute that preceded the H, ran at 1200 rpm full-governed working speed. The H ran at 1650, a REALLY fast speed in the minds of a lot of people back then! A dealer told my father that the H would NEVER LAST because it ran so fast it would soon beat itself to death. The M, of course, ran at only 1450, so maybe he thought that engine would hold up for a while. Well, a few years ago, I knew a farmer with a big wholesale vegetable operation who had over 40 IH tractors of the H-M generation--all restored to like-new condition (there were a number of A, AV, B, C models, too). He had them equipped with various implements that were never taken off (planters, cultivators, sprayers, for example), so all he had to do was tell his men which tractor to take and off they went. He said he could have maybe 15 or 20 of these tractors for the price of a middle-sized new one. The dealer was wrong--these old gals were really built. My father put twenty years on one H, and probably 30 on a second one.
Just one man's two cents worth, now reduced by inflation to what, I wonder?

No live hydros for the M untill you get to the super M stage II. As for a 3 point hitch they are also readily available. The M is a great tractor but you might want to stick to the ford for mowing. Dont get me wrong but the M definitly is a very high COG tractor and wouldnt be ideal for mowing.

12v conversion kits are also readily available. If i were you i would try to find one with a mag, I really like mags over dist.

When looking at an M make sure all the gears work without to much noise and run the tractor down hill in all gears to make sure it doesnt pop out. 4th and 3rd were the working gears i believe.

And Parts are super availble for all M tractors except an MD, those get kind of hard to find, But if do come across an MD definitly snatch it up.

Thats about it, The M"s are Great tractors and im sure you will love it

(quoted from post at 12:50:36 02/24/10)...I guess I've made the assumption that the later years may have parts more readily available and be a bit more user friendly. All of the things I mentioned would be nice but are far from necessary. What I want most is a good solid M that can be a project for me to restore. Did the M have a year that is considered the quintessential M? Did they have any years that had issues with any component that I might want to be aware of? Is there any book or referrence guide for the M's specifically? Thanks again. LC

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I like to think of Farmalls as the Chevy of the tractor world. Just about every M part will fit on any other M. Then you can toss the majority of the -6 series parts in there as well. Add in the 400 and 450s as well as a handfull of the 560 parts and there are even more parts available.

I wouldn't say that 19__ was THE year for the M. The normal guy couldn't tell most of them apart, esp from his lawnchair at the parade.

No problems specific to one year bc they never really changed them. The steering gear wobbles in road gear on just about all of them, but you can fix it with about $200 of parts from Carter-Gruenwald Equip.

Guy Fay puts out some really good Farmall books. Not sure if he has one on just the M, but he does have some on the letter series. Don't forget to go to the library and check for tractor books. People forget all about that big brick building downtown nowdays! There are A TON of books at ours on tractors.

ha ha glennster, i love it when ya gotta take yer finger and wipe away the oil/grease to see the serial number plate. Seems like when you check your air bath it always gunks up right on the plate, love yer tractor

Thanks for your insightful reply. I'm definitely a rookie at these old tractors but have always loved them. As I stated before, I recently bought an old Ford with a loader that's my workhorse and I would love to get a project tractor going. I got married a month ago and my wife gets a bit ornery when I talk about getting one to work on but I'll keep working on her.

Thanks guys for all the info. I bought an Ertl Farmall M yesterday and it's sitting on my desk at work....that should get me by until I'm ready to make the real purchase. I'm really green when it comes to these red tractors so all the info was greatly appreciated. I love reading all your posts and I'll probably have another rookies question soon enough. Thanks again, LC

Another note: Fay and Kraushaar (Farmall Letter Series Tractors) say that the speeds in each gear on the Super H and M series were increased so that the same load would be pulled faster by the Super tractors than the original models. This would result in less torque going through the drive train, according to these authors, so it wouldn't have been necessary to beef up the drive train much, if at all. Can't comment much on engineering, but it seems to make sense.