Super A head gasket

The gasket kit that came with the engine kit that I had my machine shop order for my Super A has a different head gasket with some smaller openings. This is for the C113/123 block that originally had thicker sleeves in the Super A only-354898, same block as the Super C/Super A1. I think the company messed up in that the label on the box says "C113 w/water pump, C123--". I assume the smaller holes are not suitable for my Super A without a water pump -- just trying to confirm this before contacting the company--apparantly they don't know that the optional water pump prior to the Super A1 did not use the newer head gasket. Jim Becker and some others should know this. Thanks in advance.

I agree it should be large holes. Coolant does not flow well through those small holes without a pump. Jim

Yes, the problem is going to be convincing the manufacturer, that is the main reason I purchased the kit from a local parts store, they can do the convincing. But, it seems strange that IH used the same block and head, at least in my tractor, for the late 113 and 123, only difference is the gasket. Seems like the pressurized water would eventually enlarge the holes in the gasket.

There have been gasket hole sizes used to control water flow for years. The material usually stays pretty well to size. Though it seems weird, it is more successful than redesigning the casting, and making it impossible to use as a replacement. Jim

If your tractor has no water pump, you have the wrong gasket. I recently ordered one from Steiner and it is correct. Their description says it is for the C-113 engine without water pump.

Everybody agrees on this one. Installing a water pump on a Super A (and doing it right) calls for not only the water pump but also a thermostat and a head gasket.

So the markings on my gasket set box are correct. But, there is nothing in the parts book about an optional water pump or a different head gasket for the C113 block, as that is reserved the "C123" 354898 block that I have; and as far as I know was never mentioned by IH, although everyone says "a water pump was optional"? Would be interesting to see if a water pump is listed as an option in the parts manual prior to the Super A1. Unless I am missing something. Another question: I like heat indicators and since my SA is disassembled, I would like to put one on it, but I don't want the sensor in the radiator inlet. On page 74 of the SA parts book (C123 section), the outlet piece has a tapped hole in it that the C113 part does not have. Is the temperature sensor supposed to go into that fitting on the Super A1/Super C, or maybe I could tap the one on my Super A without problems?

The parts catalogs had a bunch of editing done over the years. So they aren't always clear or accurate. I think that references to a C-123 or water pump you find in any Super A catalog migrated in from a Super A1. Here is the way I think it went:

All Super As came with a 113 engine, none with a water pump.
All Super A1s came with a 123 engine with a water pump.
Early Farmall Cs came with a 113 engine and no water pump.
A water pump OPTION was added to the Farmall C.
All Super Cs came with a 123 engine with a water pump.

Head gaskets came with smalll or large water passages for without or with a water pump.
They also came with small or large cylinder openings for 3 or 3-1/8 cylinder bores.

Of the 4 possible combinations of sizes, I know at least three were made at one time (Small bore with or without water pump and big bore with water pump).

2 numbers can be found in the current references. 366301R1 with no water pump, 366300R1 with a water pump.

366301R1 superceeded 43353DD and 354896R1. (I have to wonder if this is the fourth combination, big bore no water pump.)
366300R1 superceeded 356313R2.

I know at one point we needed a small bore gasket and the original had been superceeded by a big bore version and the original was no longer available. Can't remember but think it was an engine with a water pump.

The heat sensor was in the inlet elbow on engines without a water pump. It was in the outlet neck on engines with a water pump. The inlet elbows usually weren't drilled and tapped if there was no gage. The water pump engines had a different outlet (room for the thermostat). I don't know if a non-water pump outlet has material enough to drill/tap for a sensor.

Thanks Jim, you confirmed what I thought I already knew--in more detail--The C water pump option I did not know about. I may try to find a C123 outlet for a temperature gage. Thanks again.

(quoted from post at 11:05:19 02/21/10)I may try to find a C123 outlet for a temperature gage.

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Check the appropriate sections of a C Parts Catalog. You probably need to change a few other parts with it (radiator brace comes to mind).

Wasn't the radiator taller when they added the water pump? I am thinking the outlet with the provision for the sending unit will not line up with the angle on the shorter radiator neck. Just a thought.

The taller radiator was used on the Super C and Super A1, separate question from whether there is a water pump.

Looking at the C book, it indicates the radiator brace is the same for either outlet.