(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Lead Substitute - Yea's or Nay's

B

Brian Luton

Member
Hello old tractor drivers!

I'm interested in whether folks are using or not using Lead Substitute (or other additives) when they're running older tractors.

I never have in the past but on a solid recommendation I've just started adding a lubricity formula to our diesel tractor and I'm curious if a lead substitute should be in order for our old gas guzzling Super A.
 
In my opinion, a lead substitute IS NOT NEEDED IN OUR OLD TRACTORS.

1) Lead can help to a small extent in providing lubrication and a "cushioning" when and where the valves mate into the seat and in theory lead can reduce the extent of the valves recession down into the seat BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT in these old low RPM tractors and especially when they arent used for longggggggggggggg hard use, I just dont envision the use or non use of a lead additive as causing much, if any, noticeable difference.......

2) Since our old tractors are NOT high compression, I just dont envision any pre ignition spark knock problem that would require any lead additive.

Im NOT a chemist or mechanical or materials scientist or metals engineer BUTTTTTTTT thats my story n Ima stickin to it lol This is an area we may get allllllllll sorts of OPINIONS and were all entitled to them right or wrong, including my own

God Bless yall and Happy New year

John T
 
While I strongly believe that older diesel engines benefit from adding lube to the fuel our old gas tractors (especially of the era of the Super A) don't give two hoots about lead additives. The main reason for this being that most of the gas Farmalls were built before the era of leaded gasolines and so they weren't designed to require the lead in the first place. Sam
 
As my old, fat, now dead, firechief used to say "...it ain't gonna make any more difference than a fart in a whirlwind."
 
All depends on how you use the tractor. If older, with soft seats, they will wear prematurely with heavy use. But how many old tractors get used heavy and steady anymore? I suspect most, when new, got used more in a month then many get used in 10 years now.

The diesel fuel thing is a bit different. Mechanical injection pumps were designed for fuel that no longer exists (for the most part). The new fuel, by law, has lube addtive put back in that brings it up near what it ought to be - but not quite. So, if you do not use an additive, your pump will wear slightly faster. Considering the main moving parts of a typical injection pump can last 1,000,000 engine hours with good fuel - suppose you cut that life in half. Are you ever going to notice? I doubt it.
But, you have no idea how many hours they already have.

There's a lot of myth around with mechanical pumps. Partly because pumps, when redone in shops, get sold as "rebuilt" and they are not. Often when you buy a "rebuilt" pump, most of the moving parts have been re-used, as-is. They last an amazingly long time.
 
Well I think if you would then it might, but on the other hand which is left or right it might not be that way very long. Try it and if it does then you know it is time to go home right a way.
hope this helps.
 
brian, i try and fill my gasoline barrels at the end of feb or early march, when the refinerys up here lower the price on winter blend gas to get it out of inventory. sometimes you can get it at a lower price, sometimes not. (kinda like selling grain) anywho, i throw a gallon jug of marvel mystery oil and a gallon jug of stabil in the 300 gallon gravity tanks for gas. i dunno if it helps or not, but i figure if i'm paying $650 to $1000 for 300 gallons, a couple dollars in magic elixer couldnt hurt!!
 
Yep need to use it real bad, that way the snake oil company that sells it will stay in business and that will help the economy. LOL
All that lead stuff is, is a snake oil and doesn't even have any lead in it any how. You can do the same thing by putting a qt of ATF to 20 gal. of gas. That said I have been running tractors for 30 plus years now and NEVER use any thing but the cheapest gas I can buy and I have never had any problems
 
If you were a regular reader of these posts your question would have been answered many times. There is something wrong that you say your SA is gas guzzling as that engine does great. We have been using the 10% blend for 25 pluss yrs with no problems.
 
Well, I guess you found out which forum members stayed up celebrating last night and woke up hung over! Don't use lead additive here. When I bought my '76 PU last summer the owner emphatically told me to make sure I put lead additive in the gas. I hated to be rude but had actually owned a truck back in '75 and remembered all those lines to buy UNLEADED gas. He wasn't buying it so I went to the manual in the glove box. Said use unleaded gas. Not sure we parted friends.

On the other hand, I have this REALLY super MTA that I run the b-hay-soose out of and have never used additive or had problems and it works pretty hard for about half the year. I do feel your pain, however. The Farmall B is not a terrible thirsty tractor but it does need a fair more fillups than the more modern Ford of about the same HP.
 
When I had my '40 Case RC engine rebuilt, I asked the machine shop owner about this and he said that with the new valves and seats he installed, forget about adding a lead substitute as it wasn't necessary.
 
I would agree with everyone on here that lead is not needed. The machinist that just rebuilt some heads for me explained it quite well. told me that lead will lengthen the life of the original heads without hardened seats, but makes no difference if seats have been installed. Most engines have probably had seats intalled at some point by now.
 

What we all need to watch is the removal of "Zinc" from motor oils ! GM requires a zinc additive to the oil on its Corvette engines to the fact with out it they wipe out the roller cams.


Does this effect us in our tractors ? It will really effect the diesels. I forget the parts per millon it was and what it is now but it is almost gone.

Do your home work on oil it"s not what it used to be. Most of antique tractors or all are solid lifter cam motors .


This is a topic we should probaly debate or look into more.
 
Yea something about trying to grow vegetables for a living while raising a family gets in the way of reading as many posts as I might like.

But anyway...."gas guzzler" is a relative term. And I used it very loosely. The tractor actually does quite well on gas. It doesn't compare to the Perkins Diesel on our MF 135 - that thing spoils the crap out of us - but then again thats like comparing apples to oranges.
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. It seems pretty much by consensus that I can probably throw those few bucks in the coffee can for a rainy day!
 
Aged of the engine, when was it last had head work, what did they do, what do you use it for. These are questions that you need to answer. I retired from a pipeline company 3 years ago that we loaded and pump gasoline and diesel fuel. Lead in the gasoline help lube and clean the valve train. What they found out first thing out of the box with no-lead gasoline was that deposits would build up on the valves and seats and cause burning. Older engines this would a serious threat with the softer valves and seats. They did two things to try and cure this. One was to put harder valves and seats in new engines that would not be damage as bad and the other was to add valve cleaner in the gasoline loaded for retail and we went over 10% additives for 10% blends to stop the deposits. Myself I have a Farmall 400 and use a lead substitute additive because I use it for snow blowing, moco, plowing, disking and baling. Now this additive has no lead in but is suppose to do the same thing as lead, clean and top lube. I have been doing this for over 20 years. The additive is a cheap investment instead say a new valve job on the engine.

John In Iowa
 
I wish I would have done this search earlier today. A dandy reply from our late Canadian IH contributor Hugh MacKay; or as one family member informed us, 'Hughie'. Enjoy, I sure did!
 
Guys, think about this for a minute. All of the F series, and a good portion of the early letter series were dual fuel. Gasoline and kerosene.

Kerosene did NOT contain lead, AND ran a lot hotter than gasoline.

The "lead" in gasoline was Tetra ethyl Lead. It's primary function was to increase the Octane rating for the gasoline. Yes, the lead lubricated the valve seats, but it also caused build up on the valves themselves which over time caused problems. Leaded gasoline in a two-cycle engine played havoc with the reed valves, again, over time.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

I for one, do NOT use it.
 
Here is the Hugh MacKay comment:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: adding lead to fuel Reply to specific post Reply with quote
Don: Lead was only ever a benefit to HIGH PERFORMANCE, HIGH RPM engines, your Farmalls are neither. When non leaded gas became the only choice I was running Farmalls 300, 130 and Super A. The 300 was running 800 to 1,000 hours per year, most of it overloaded. The SA and 130 were each burning 500 imp gallons of gasoline per year. Let me assure you, the bottom end of those engines will require rebuilding long before factory original valves, even on no lead gas. In fact I have put new piston and sleeve kits in without doing the head.

Society today are addicted to additives, especially when it comes to a vehicle with an engine. You walk in most auto parts stores and it's truly unbelievable the amount of shelf space devoted to additives. It must be a good money maker for the stores, because most of it is not worth a tinkers damn.
 
A big percentage of the early letter series tractors were running on unleaded fuel from day one--distillate or kerosene. Have always heard that early farmalls had hard valve seats from factory, do not know if that is true.
 
To the best of my knowledge, Stellite valve seats were not used on the F series or Letter series tractors. Of the ones that I have repaired or rebuilt, they did not. I have, however, had them installed. There is not alot of room in some of the head configurations to install a valve seat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Lead Substitute, do you use it?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
Jim in LA
J
S
Massey-Harris 35 pull type combine, or Massey 300?
Replies
7
Views
663
Leroy
L
M
New-to-me JD-A and JD-B Repair Tips
Replies
13
Views
944
Fixingfarmer
Fixingfarmer
N
Ford3000 or 4100?
Replies
5
Views
540
Nils104
N
L
Nick's 1951 8N
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
Jim in LA
J
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top