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Yes, In cold weather it will cause problems.
Warped vales.
When you shut off the engine plug the straight pipe to stop cold air from rushing in.
When you have a muffler the cold air rushing in has to travel through chambers in the muffler before it reaches the head so the air is being warmed before it get's to the head and valves.
Warped vales.
When you shut off the engine plug the straight pipe to stop cold air from rushing in.
When you have a muffler the cold air rushing in has to travel through chambers in the muffler before it reaches the head so the air is being warmed before it get's to the head and valves.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Goofy valves will be the least of your problems. You won't be able to hear anything after you run it for a while.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Won't hurt anything other than your ears.
Have you ever looked in a muffler? You can see right through it! Car mufflers do have baffles that make the air "weave" around, but these do not. They have little seashell punches punched into the middle of the pipe to catch some of the noise. They are very similar to a glass pack.
It will be loud! I didn't take mine off when I was plowing and it was NASTY. Thank goodness for worktunes
That would make sense about the valves, but I do not think an IH muffler is going to save you. This is the first I have ever heard about any problems.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
A Farmall M or super M muffler has no chambers. The muffler is a "straight-thru" design using a perforated tube. The perforations are what reduces the noise.
It will lower your torque, ruin your hearing, and if you don't have a raincap/flopper on it you can get water down into the engine just like a muffler with no flopper. Some people will tell you tell you that it can warp the valves due to the cold air getting in to them at shutdown, but as long as you have a flopper or at least 18" of pipe I have never seen any problem. There is a lot of residual heat in the manifold and whatever pipe you do have
My pulling M has the stock pipe out through the hood and then a 12" long 5" turnout. I mounted it with the stock pipe protuding up so I can put a soup can on the stock pipe and the 5 incher has a drain hole in it. I like the looks but it is loud.
My pulling M has the stock pipe out through the hood and then a 12" long 5" turnout. I mounted it with the stock pipe protuding up so I can put a soup can on the stock pipe and the 5 incher has a drain hole in it. I like the looks but it is loud.
SARG
Member
- Location
- Upstate New York
"DOOFUS".... how very appropriate.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Rusty and Redmist are on to it. I have 50 years running engines from Briggs W/O any pipe and the hole 1" away from the valve, to test engines on stands, and there is no shred of rationale for valve warp, the legend just keeps staying alive. Please disregard it.
I have permanent hearing loss and ringing in my ears from driving Farmalls W/O mufflers. It is not wise, and living with that sound of old TV screaming hiss is a real drag. JimN
I have permanent hearing loss and ringing in my ears from driving Farmalls W/O mufflers. It is not wise, and living with that sound of old TV screaming hiss is a real drag. JimN
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Actually, there may be a shred of truth to the valve warping theory. I remember reading a long time ago in one of the performance car magazines about how the 1/4 mile drag strip boys would immediately plug the ends of their "zoomie" headers after each run down the track. The theory was that plugging the headers would hold the heat in the engine and prevent the valves from warping and also prevent any potential cracking in the cylinder head and engine block. BUT, and here is the difference, those DRAG STRIP engines were extremely HOT at the end of each pass, much hotter than any M would get under normal use.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Just wear a pair of ear plugs!
I never leave the house with out them! If we go somewhere nice or I am going to work its just a habit I got into yrs ago and I hope my son picks it up too!
I never leave the house with out them! If we go somewhere nice or I am going to work its just a habit I got into yrs ago and I hope my son picks it up too!
Janicholson
Well-known Member
I have seen them put on the caps in the 60 (I think it was then) but not now. The engines today are running melt down temperatures, and maybe they just figure on replacing the engine each run. Some do, some don't. I bet it is, again, the legend rather than the fact. Only one exhaust would be open at a time (unless it had many cylinders) even then it would take (in my opinion) direct air flow unevenly placed on the valve. I say ignore it and put a muffler on it for best practice. Jim
Shawn in PA
Member
Does it really noticably lower your torque? I had a straight pipe on a super m for quite some time. I can"t see any noticable difference in a torque loss, even when under heavy load. I agree the noise is at times too much, which is why i now run a muffler on all my tractors. My hearing is already bad in one ear from the military. Can't afford to lose the other.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
I have seen them put on the caps in the 60 (I think it was then) but not now. The engines today are running melt down temperatures, and maybe they just figure on replacing the engine each run. Some do, some don't. I bet it is, again, the legend rather than the fact. Only one exhaust would be open at a time (unless it had many cylinders) even then it would take (in my opinion) direct air flow unevenly placed on the valve. I say ignore it and put a muffler on it for best practice. Jim
erik dekeyser
Member
Hey guys it might look smart to have a straight pipe ,but if you do wear ear protection.My ears ring constatly and its no fun. I sat on an open tractor for years and now im paying for it. The case muffler has a baffle in it but the TSC mufflers dont there is a lot of difference between the two mufflers. I wont buy a muffler you can see through from TSC. Erik..
charles todd
Well-known Member
Straight pipe or vintage muffler are about the same minus a few decibles. I bought a new muffler for my diesel Farmall 504 and it helps, but it is still too loud w/o ear plugs at PTO speeds. I wear ear plugs anytime I work it.
As for the valve issue, BS. If you want a straight pipe, go for it! Sounds awsome! As for the torque issue, it is debatable. That conversation is for high RPM engines, not a tractor engine.
Good luck.
CT
As for the valve issue, BS. If you want a straight pipe, go for it! Sounds awsome! As for the torque issue, it is debatable. That conversation is for high RPM engines, not a tractor engine.
Good luck.
CT
soybeanjoe
Member
EriK, I have tinitus as well and I'm sure a lot of it comes from running open station tractors with straight pipes, or we would ram the muffler down over a steel fence post to knock out the baffels. Nobody even though of using ear plugs back then.
I heve never experiences any valve problems running tractors with straight pipe nor have I ever seen an increase in hp due to a s.p. as some claim. Howevewr, I can attest to ringing in the ears so if you want to hear chicadas year round, day & night, go ahead & run s.ps. & don't use any ear protection.
I heve never experiences any valve problems running tractors with straight pipe nor have I ever seen an increase in hp due to a s.p. as some claim. Howevewr, I can attest to ringing in the ears so if you want to hear chicadas year round, day & night, go ahead & run s.ps. & don't use any ear protection.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I thought I was the only one who could hear those TV's! Worse than a dog whistle.
I have seen cold weather hurt valves on pullers, but, they were running very short pipes, and cheap car valves.(too fast of a cool down, and even cracked ported heads!) If the pipe was long, it might not be as bad. Run it hard and put it away wet, it will hurt it eventually. Same goes for all engines. If it cools down slow, it will help, so after a hard workout, let it run and cool down before shutting it down for the day. Chad
I have seen cold weather hurt valves on pullers, but, they were running very short pipes, and cheap car valves.(too fast of a cool down, and even cracked ported heads!) If the pipe was long, it might not be as bad. Run it hard and put it away wet, it will hurt it eventually. Same goes for all engines. If it cools down slow, it will help, so after a hard workout, let it run and cool down before shutting it down for the day. Chad
Bernie Steffen
Member
Straight pipes are wonderful for a tractor ride. Half throttle or less. If you're gonna plow or otherwise work it all day, better get a muffler. Bernie Steffen
erik dekeyser
Member
You know when your young nothing bothers you and as for ear protection well thats for geeks. After running a tractor all day i would go to bed at night and my ears would ring a bit but by morning it would disapear and i would put in another day and another and another. Then you get to be some where between 40 and 50 and all of a sudden your ears start to ring for no reason. You go to the doctor and he says sorry you just have to live with it there is nothing i can do to help you. So people please protect your ears from loud noise like music and machinery because it will damage your ears. Erik..
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
My Dad did a straight pipe on his M one time and burnt the valves. However, he put the pipe down the inside of the manifold. That is a no no.
Shawn: Probably not in the case of an M, but on racing engines - yes. In the case of nascar stockcars, for example, they use a cross-over pipe between the two collectors to create a little back pressure, which in turn, helps with low end torque. Not too important at a super speedway like Daytona or Talladega, but very important at short tracks and road course tracks.
mike
Larry B 1486
Member
I think the issue with warping the valves is when you shut the tractor off. This is when cold air blows down the pipe. This is where a rain cap and a baffle in a muffler also serves a dual role to stop air flow down the pipe. Running a straight pipe on a M wont do anything for power, just make you hard hearing and make the tractor sound like it's not running right. The baffle in the muffler is for sparks, keeping them from flying out and catching something on fire like a hay field. The baffle is not for sound but it also can knock one or two horsepower off under a load holding back exaust pressure this is why some people look for a straight thru muffler with no baffle.
I thought the crossover pipe also had something to do with equalizing exhaust pressure from both banks as well. You will know if you don't have enough backpressure LONG before you warp any valves, etc.
I hate Osseo and I hate everything around it. Fall Creek all the way to West Salem. They all suck. Hills really suck!!!
Shawn in PA
Member
Red Mist, thanks for the reply. I do understand the importance for backpressure in automotive applications, especially in something like nascar. I"ve even seen some off road guys lose quite abit of torque by running too big of pipe. Wrong cam also aided in some of the losses. I just couldn"t see how in a low rpm engine such as an M, any torque would be noticably lossed. I just wanted some reinforcement for my thinking...thank you.
scot in pa
Member
The cross pipe works with the headers to help speed up the exhaust flow through the pipe and out of the cylinder. A properly tuned set of headers and x-pipe can actually have the fresh intake charge moving into the cylinder before the piston passes TDC in a high performance engine.
A straight pipe isn't going to hurt anything. The manifold would probably be enough to keep cold air from hitting hot exhaust valves and burning them up. Back pressure in any engine is a bad thing, the less you have the easier it is to move the spent gasses out of the motor. And too much back pressure burns up valves.
To really make any significant performance difference, it would take work on the entire manifold unless you are plugging up the exhaust pipe with what you already have.
A straight pipe isn't going to hurt anything. The manifold would probably be enough to keep cold air from hitting hot exhaust valves and burning them up. Back pressure in any engine is a bad thing, the less you have the easier it is to move the spent gasses out of the motor. And too much back pressure burns up valves.
To really make any significant performance difference, it would take work on the entire manifold unless you are plugging up the exhaust pipe with what you already have.
Big pipes, small pipes, long pipes , short pipes. I think we are getting into exhaust tuning for scavenging the cylinders, valve overlap, lift and timing etc. Throw in ram induction on the intake for max torque at a specific rpm, and you are talking high rpm, high out put engines. Not a concern with the M. I have seen guys use a plain old down spout off their house just to get the noise out of their ears but still not have that "back pressure" associated with a baffled muffler. Harm the valves, no.
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