6v - 12v Charger question for you all?

I am trying to get my Farmall 460D to start. The battery system is two 6 volt batteries. The batteris are weak, so I have them on charge. The question is I am going to try and start it with the battery charge. Do I use the 6volt 100amp setting or can i use the 12vold 200 amp setting to try and get her to start?

Are the batteries hooked in series or parallel? I know John Deere was big on hooking two six volts up together to make them 12 volts. Cat also did it with two 12 volt batteries. Are your positives hooked together or is one positive to the opposite batteries neg post? If the later is true they are hooked in series. This would mean you are running a 12 volt system and you should be charging/starting with 12 volts.
With all that said, you can cheat and use 12 volts to turn a 6 volt starter. You can't over crank it or you will burn up the starter in a hurry.

Im assuming the two six volt batteries are in series i.e. its a 12 volt system.

If I were charging it Id charge them BOTH in series at the same time at 12 volts using a 12 volt charger, that would be the chargers POS clamp to the outermost (untied in middle) POS battery post on one battery and the chargers NEG clamp to the outermost (NOT where it ties in middle to other battery) NEG post on the other battery...

I doubt the charger alone would start it UNLESS ITS A VERY HIGH AMP SUPER CAPACITY BOOSTER TYPE OF CHARGER. With a smaller charger Id still let the batteries charge for a while (on a med to high setting) and then put it on high boost charge (at 12 votls across BOTH batteries) when youre ready to crank it over.

Charging only one of the 6 volt batteries will not get the job done, they BOTH need charged and sure you could charge them one at a time on the 6 volt setting BUTTTTTTTT Id charge them in series at 12 volts AND FOR SURE when youre ready to crank her over set the charger on high or boost while its charging BOTH batteries at 12 volts.

Got it?????????

John T

John T

Thanks you you all...I got her going. It did require a shot of starting fluid.

Please don't be offended by this, but I have an H that I got out of time several years ago. Gears in mag were out of sequence. Took me several days to figure that out. Since it had a mag with the generator disconnected and the lights missing, I cranked the 6 volt starter off and on for 10-30 seconds at a time for 2-3 days with no damage from 12 volts. In other words it is hard to damage a 6 volt starter with 12 volts. Just one of the myths perpetuated on this forum that feeds on itself. Another myth is that 12 volts turn mag-equipped tractors too fast for the mag to operate properly when starting. I think they start easier. This particular tractor needs about everything, so I have not attempted to "restore" it, may someday. Been on this forum for at least 10 years, this is my first rant, will probably be the last.

One good rant deserves another.

I think the usual warning on overusing a 6-volt starter suggests not grinding on it but letting off after 30 seconds or so to keep from overheating it. Seems to me that you were following the recommendation in the "myth".

The other potential damage is the Bendix. They are pretty durable but the damage is eventual. Two or three days probably won't do one in.

On the cranking speed keeping the mag impulse from engaging, that can definitely happen. I've had the experience first hand. Cranking speed depends on quite a few variables including battery voltage, starter condition, compresssion, oil viscosity, tractor model and the list goes on. Not having the problem on a sample of a few tractors does not mean it won't happen on another.

I watched a guy I was custom hauling for trash his starter doing this very thing. It certainly can happen, but like the latest poster said, it is overcranking bc it won't start and getting all rammy and not letting it cool that causes the problems. With that said, you could trash it with 6 volts if the battery lasts long enough

I probably should have said to use common sense. In hindsight, I also should have said I cranked for 10-20 seconds, I don't think I have ever run any starter 6 or 12, tractor or car for 30. I simply have not had a problem with overspeeding the mag, perhaps it is the only thing not worn out on the tractor.

I agree, there wasn't too much common sense with this dude. I said, "Why don't we just pull it? I have plenty of chains. We can even pull it with the truck and trailer attatched!" He said, no it will start...

Disconnect the 6v batteries and charge them seperately. Then connect them as they were.
Dell

(quoted from post at 13:18:30 12/19/09) Thanks you you all...I got her going. It did require a shot of starting fluid.

Click to expand...

What ended up being the problem? Just dead bats from sitting/cold?

How are they hooked up negative to positive or positive to positive?

I need to know this for my mental encyclopedia

All 560s are 12V.

Gas tractors have one 12V battery.

Diesel tractors should have two 6V batteries, hooked + to - with a short battery cable, to make 12V. Once connected, it works exactly the same as a single 12V battery. Treat it like a single 12V battery.

For charging and jumping, you hook the red clamp to the + on the first battery, and hook the black clamp to the - on the second battery. You do NOT connect anything to the short cable at all.

Use the *12V* boost setting.

(quoted from post at 07:15:19 12/21/09) All 560s are 12V.

Gas tractors have one 12V battery.

Diesel tractors should have two 6V batteries, hooked + to - with a short battery cable, to make 12V. Once connected, it works exactly the same as a single 12V battery. Treat it like a single 12V battery.

For charging and jumping, you hook the red clamp to the + on the first battery, and hook the black clamp to the - on the second battery. You do NOT connect anything to the short cable at all.

Use the *12V* boost setting.

Click to expand...

That is what I figured. They were doing this way back on the MD's.

With that said I could confuse the subject. :roll: You can take two 12 volt batteries and hook them + to + and - to - for twice the cranking amps. IDK what the battery boxes look like on the 460/560, but you can do it on the big Deeres pretty easy ie4440. It wouldn't really work on something like a 4020 with the long skinny 6 volt boxes.

The F460 and F560 have the steering shaft between the batteries. That limits the size of single 12 volt battery that you might use.

(quoted from post at 07:54:06 12/21/09)

(quoted from post at 07:15:19 12/21/09) All 560s are 12V.

Gas tractors have one 12V battery.

Diesel tractors should have two 6V batteries, hooked + to - with a short battery cable, to make 12V. Once connected, it works exactly the same as a single 12V battery. Treat it like a single 12V battery.

For charging and jumping, you hook the red clamp to the + on the first battery, and hook the black clamp to the - on the second battery. You do NOT connect anything to the short cable at all.

Use the *12V* boost setting.

Click to expand...

That is what I figured. They were doing this way back on the MD's.

With that said I could confuse the subject. :roll: You can take two 12 volt batteries and hook them + to + and - to - for twice the cranking amps. IDK what the battery boxes look like on the 460/560, but you can do it on the big Deeres pretty easy ie4440. It wouldn't really work on something like a 4020 with the long skinny 6 volt boxes.

Click to expand...

Actuall sflem you have the correct solution. I ran JD A's for many years with the original 2/6v hooked in series to make 12v and always had slow starts. Then for LESS MONEY I bought 2 small 12v and hooked them in parrallel and had 12v with twice the cranking amps and much easier starting.
Dell