hydraulics help

O.K. here"s the situation. I have an IH 400 with a single set of hydraulic couplers. The hydraulics are very slow. I"d like to mount a front end loader but need two sets of couplers. I"d also like to install another hydraulic pump to increase flow capacity & speed up the hydraulics. I"d like to mount the hydraulic pump at the front (run a pto shaft to the front of engine /attach it to the pump), AND attach the system to the hydraulic reservoir. The question I have is, will the installation of the second pump cause any damage to the pump that is installed in the tractor? Has anyone done this before? If so, any cautions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Sluggo

If your hydraulics are slow, they may be noisy as well. You probably have a flow control valve problem or maybe your filter is "coked" up. That means caved in and covered up with burnt oil. Of course you could have a bad pump as well. I think they are rated for 15 gallons per minute.

I am guessing that you have no fast hitch and only one valve. Many F-400s have two sets of hydraulic outlets underneath the gas tank and another set at the rear.

You can't run two pumps in series. We are not talking about compressed air or electricity here. You could run two pumps in parellel but you would need to protect each pump with hydraulic check valves. It is not something I would do.

I suggest you simplify your life (and tractor) by having two hydraulic systems that are not connected.

Run a new pump off the fanbelt or a new pulley on the crankshaft. The oil and reservoir will be the rear frame and the Hy-Tran within. Get a two spool open center valve to run the loader.

You could also get hydraulic power from the LPTO at the rear of the tractor. Prince makes the pump that slides over the PTO shaft. Again, use the Hy-Tran and rear frame. Supply comes from the cover underneath the clutch housing. The cover has eight bolts. Drill and tap for 1/2" or 3/4" pipe nipple. Or you could use the rear frame 1" drain under neath the PTO shaft.

If you need more pictures, tell me what you need. The picture below is a pump running off its own dedicated crankshaft pulley.

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view&current=hydraulicpump042.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>

I like your setup, Wardner! I work for a house mover and all the big trucks we use have that exact style pump with electric clutch mounted to the engine to provide hyd. power while pulling a house.

Did you just weld a pulley to the existing crank pulley?

After re-reading the thread, I noticed that you said "IH 400". That's not good enough. Is it a Farmall or International? If it is an International, you can't do what I photographed in the previous picture. The bolster gets in the way. You could still use the Prince PTO pump.

If it is a Farmall, your cheapest solution is to go to a salvage yard and get the flow control valve, the three work valves and levers, the two center positioned manifolds w/outlets, and maybe a new pump. I am not confident that three valves can be fitted to an International. The cowl only has holes for two valve linkages.

Here is another picture of my F-400.

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view&current=mower025.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

You don't say of you already have a loader. If you don't, I'd be looking for a loader that has it's own reservoir and valves. Then add a pump, either like Wardner's (a great idea) or one driven off the crankshaft in front. If front mounted, it's good to have a frame around it so it doesn't get hit and busted.

Kirk,

The pulley uses a tapered bushing to secure it to the crankshaft. The hand crank stuff has to come out temporarily in order to slide it in there. A single groove pulley might be easier to install. It is the same diameter as the IH pulley. Clearance to the bottom of the fan shroud is 1/8".

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view¤t=hydraulicpump022.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Thanks for sharing the ideas,everyone. Sorry for not getting back to you with more information.
Yes, I already have a loader, front mount pump, and double spool for the hydraulics. It comes off of another W400 I had, but the engine is now finished. Everything would transfer over quite easily; front shaft, protective casing for the pump, hoses,etc. The original tractor did not have a hydraulic system, the tractor I want to add this pump to has a factory system. I"m assuming the two pumps, if installed, would run independantly. I would have the original hydraulics and single spool working out the back of the tractor and running off the original pump. The pump I"m adding would run the double spool (it will be mounted on the right fender...actually a very handy location for hydraulic controls). This would give me three way hydraulics! Not bad for a 1950s tractor. But all the hydraulics will be fed from the same oil reservoir and that is what I"m wondering about. Will this cause damage to the pumps?

The loader had to have its own reservoir because the donor tractor had no factory hydraulics. Use that reservoir. Doing it this way completely divorces both hydraulic systems on the new tractor. That is not a bad thing.

I am afraid that I am missing something here because this solution seems so obvious and shouldn't be a source of confusion.

Provided that all four cylinders on the loader are double acting (two ports per cylinder) you could run both systems from the W-400 reservoir. Near the bottom left side of the W-400 reservoir is a drain plug. Put a Tee there and pipe both supply and return into it. Size the tee to be the same size as the supply port on front pump. Supply hose goes to pump. Return hose goes to reservoir port on fender valve.

That drain plug port is only 3/8" but that will be big enough because the only flow through the port will be the displacement volume of the chrome piston rods when they sre moving.

I made an error on a previous post. The W-400 CAN accomodate three valves. You could run the loader functions and the rear remote with only the IH hydraulics. That means you will have to buy a bunch of salvage parts.

When you get to the point where you want power steering, you will be going to the salvage yard. That might be a good time to price out the parts you will need to convert everything to IH if that is something you want to do later. IH power steering can't use the existing valves that are attached to the cast manifold above the reservoir. The PS valves look similar but are different.

I'd like to see a picture of the front mounted pump driveshaft and crankshaft coupling. I'm in the process of mounting a front pump on my W-400.