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How am I going to get this home?

T

tractorsam

Well-known Member
Well, it looks like there's another treasure going to be following me home when I can figure out how. It is seriously stuck and troubled, apart from being sunk into the ground, it has four flat tires, the transmission is stuck in multiple gears and the steering is siezed. That said the jury's still out on whether it's parts or not. It's a 1957 W450 Diesel. Most of it's there, about the biggest piece that's missing is the carb. One more for the fleet, Sam
a130674.jpg
 
If I did not have a truck and trailer with a winch capable of loading and hauling it, I would contact a local garage, if they have a large rollback, bigger than 1 ton, if they don't, then maybe a local big truck garage, they will have equipment to handle it. And make sure to give a good description of what they are going to haul and that it's sunk in, also make sure you can get the large rollback in to the tractor (solid ground, no trees in the way), or see if you can get it pulled out to an area where it can be safley picked up.
 
Those were about the same answers I came up with. I'll have to start phoning round to get prices on Monday. Either way round it's going to be something of a challenge. Sam
 
I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada so shipping would probably kill off most of the parts.

The serial number is 697S. Sam
 
What's the problem? Get a come-along and drag it up onto a landscape trailer with a 1-7/8" ball. Where it's stuck in gear, you should be able to get by with a couple lengths of clohesline to lash it down. Hitch it up to that minivan in the background there and haul her home!

But seriously. It may be a challenge from your description of it, but it's a nice find and would be great if you can get it running. The stuck in two gears issue you might be able to take care of so that even with the flat tires you can get it to roll. Check the archives for similar issues on Hs and Ms. The permanent fix is more involved, but getting the gears freed up so it will roll is fairly minor.

Good luck with it!
 
Thanks for the luck, I looked at it once before today and I was pleasantly surprised when I went back today as it wasn't as bad as I'd remembered. That said while I was looking at my pictures I noticed something I'm amazed I missed when looking at the tractor itself, the fan is missing! Sam
 
I think the two gears thing is slightly more involved than it first appears. Largely because as far as I can tell the shifter rails are siezed so nothing is moving.

On a related note, does anyone know if a two ton set of chain falls would be sufficient to drag a tractor that must weight 7000lbs onto a trailer? Thanks, Sam
 
You should be able to find a fan, maybe dealer? or parts yard, carbs also, and as Scotty said getting the tranny unstuck is easy, happens occasionally to my 450D, just pull the shifter off, re-align the shift rails, and put the shifter nack in, in neutral position.
 
I think finding the fan is going to be the least of my worries, I was just amazed that I never realised it was missing until I was looking at the pics afterwards. I don't think the tranny will be too bad either, I just don't know what's happened to it in the last decade or so from sitting. The biggie is what shape the engine is in, I don't actually know if it's stuck or not yet, it had a rain cap on it but that doesn't mean much, especially round here. Sam
 
Just saw your post about the shift rails, they may not move until you rock the tractor as there may (hopefully only) be pressure against the gears from as it sank into the ground (had it happen). As for the chainfall, I would want to pull it out of the ground first, then that chainfall should be strong enough to pull it on, I think even with flat tires (but your gonna be sore in the morning).
 
My 450D still has the collar on the front crankshaft pully for the hand crank, if yours has it you may be able to get a pipe wrench on it to try to turn the engine over. And we're getting pretty close to IMing here with our timing, aren't we. :^)
 
The stuck in gear was a pre-existing condition, prior to it's being sat for a decade or more where it is now. The seller is quite happy to give me a hand load it and his loader tractor with logging winch is available so I can get it out of the hole. Just as long as the chain falls could do most of the work to get it on the trailer. As to being sore in the morning, I'm young (but not for long if I keep this up :)Thanks, Sam
 
It's getting pretty close to IM. The tractor has the pin in the crank etc for the crank but I don't believe any of the pieces forward of that are there (or, as I'm now wondering did the hand crank go all the way back to the crankshaft like the earlier W's?). Sam
 
If you take the front bumper off, you will see the crank hole in the bolster. The crank itself is like a WD-9 crank but several inshes longer. They can be extended with a sleeve. Don't think it is a good idea to use a pipe wrench. You will just mangle the roll pin.

I just freed up a W-400 LP with a long soak using PB Blaster, a 12' lever on the left wheel, and the starter. It runs perfectly now.
 
Hi Sam, many years ago when I was young, I was cleaning the snow off the farm pond for a skating rink when the JD420 went through the ice. My Dad pulled me out of the pond with the other tractor. That night it was -25F and when we started the JD next morning it wouldn't move, the brakes were frozen solid. We had a 3pt drawbar on the other tractor so back the other tractor 3pt drawbar under the standard drawbar on the JD, bolted the two drawbars together, picked the rear of JD off the ground and dragged it to a neighbour's heated garage and let it thaw out.

So if owner has a large enough tractor you could do the same and push the 450 onto a trailer.

JimB
 
If you have all day you can jack it up and use rollers under the tires. Wood fence posts work work. Yeah it would still pull hard but not as hard as sliding it on the trailer.
 
Try to air up the tires first. Just get enough in them to see if they are going to hold some air. They weren't flat when it was first parked.
Tie the clutch pedal down. Maybe loosen the brake housing to release the locked up brakes. Pull the shift lever and look at the shift rails. Reposition to neutral if you can. It might be ready to roll then.
SDE
 
sam, like suggested earlier, have a flatbed tow truck come in and get it. we have 2 medium duty internationals here at the shop, they will carry around 10k pounds. they can back up, hook the winch up pull er on and head home. generally, we would charge 100 dollars for the load up and 3 dollars a loaded mile to haul it. that one prolly weighs around 6000 lbs or so, so its an easy haul. a set of go-jacks under the back wheels and you can roll er all over the place!!
 
If the owner has a tractor and winch, you are all set. Of course, you will need a trailer bigger than a landscape trailer.

Park the winch tractor behind the W-450. Block wheels on truck, trailer, and winch tractor. Run the cable under W-450 to center of trailer front. Run it through a snatch block and back to pin on W-450 bumper. If it doesn't move, put another snatch block on bumper pin and run cable back to trailer front. You can "steer" the W-450 by moving the end of slack cable from side to side or center of trailer.

You will probably save yourself several hundred dollars.

This all presumes that the tires can hold air for a few minutes. Flat tires will not track very well.
 
I've got a 3 ton Coffing lever hoist/winch for sale. I don't know if that would help you any but I thought I would get the free advertisement in. Some people might think of this as shameful, I like to refer to it as enterprising.
 
I had to get a tractor moved in the spring and the rollback man did it for $75 for about a 15-20 mile trip. I already knew him a little bit, so that might have made it a little cheaper.
Zach
 
I cannot believe no one has said anyhting about pulling a brake shaft!!! Just pull a brake shaft out and winch it on the trailer!!!
 
I cannot believe no one has said anyhting about pulling a brake shaft!!! Just pull a brake shaft out and winch it on the trailer!!!
 
I cannot believe no one has said anyhting about pulling a brake shaft!!! Just pull a brake shaft out and winch it on the trailer!!!
 
I guess you have never pulled a "Brake Shaft" on a H, M or later tractor such as this 450. The brake shaft is the bull pinion gear. It doesn't come out like an axle on a full floating truck rear end.

But yes, loosen the five bolts per side on the brake housings. Loose enough so the lock washers spin. I had to do the same thing to my W-400.

The tractor is probably in neutral as it appears to be on level ground.
If it is in 1st, 3rd, or 5th, remove the belt pulley delete plate and beat or pry the rail that is positioned forward. Or remove the shaft tower and do it there. Before I did anything, I would have the owner nudge the tractor with his running tractor while I was trying to move the shift lever by hand.
 
That sounds like a plan. I think the fronts will hold air and the left rear might, the right rear is pretty well down to the 'gaping hole' category. I guess I need to call my friend with the gooseneck trailer. Sam
 
I'm thinking I'll spend a little quality time with my lathe and make up a hand crank that can turn the engine both ways. I'm also not overfond of the marks left behind by a pipe wrench. I was also looking at a Ford Jubilee today that someone had 'torqued' the back axle jam nuts down on with a pipe wrench (or perhaps a cold chisel), what a mess. Sam
 
I would think so but oddly it doesn't seem to have split and the battery box (from the outside) looks to be in good shape. Sam
 
Well, thanks for all the great suggestions so far. I'm probably going to try and load it on a trailer, not the easiest method but time isn't a big issue at the moment. I'll take some more pictures when I retrieve it and post back to let you know how it all goes. Thanks, Sam
 
I belive you can pull bull pinion shafts on 400 series tractors. Disc brakes have a removable back plate that lets the pinion come out.
 
If it's stuck in multiple gears, try to pull the shifter and see if you can get it into nuetral. Then back a trailer up with a winch or comealong and try to pull it straight on backwards by pulling from the drawbar.
 
If it is a 450 diesel and the carb is missing,you'll probably have to part it.You'll have a hard time finding a carb for the diesel engine
 

"Carb hard to find"

I don't think that is true. They come up on eBay from time to time. Many people are not willing to rebuild the gas start diesels due to overall costs. They will part out their machines.
 
(quoted from post at 18:25:59 12/02/09) If it is a 450 diesel and the carb is missing,you'll probably have to part it.You'll have a hard time finding a carb for the diesel engine
Click to expand...


I get the impression, Wardner, that this fellow might be a troll...I read his post as tho he was telling our friend Sam that a carb for a diesel is going to be hard to find. Which is true. A carb for a gas-start IH Diesel, on the other hand, shouldn't be that hard to find.

Am I correct in assuming that, since it only needs to start and stop on gas, that pretty well any carb would work, with regards to flow, etc? On gas tractors, carb size effects power, performance, etc. I wouldn't have thought those would be factors when just idling the tractor to warm it up. Is this true?

AR
 

The carbs are special because there is a lever that shuts off fuel when the engine is running on Diesel. Could some other carb be jury rigged? Probably. I have two of the gas/start Diesels. I wouldn't even consider it. I'd spring for the OEM carb if it were needed.

A couple of "housekeeping" details follow:

Sam sent me a few photos of the tractor. After printing out one of the photos and comparing it to my W-400 from the same angle, I determined that the shifter is in 1st or 3rd gear.

I took a photo of my hand crank that fits a 650D. It should be similar to the 450D crank. It almost works for my W-400 LP but is two inches too short between the crankshaft end and the collar that rides in the bolster.

W-450021.jpg
 
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