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Starter solenoid on my 400

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S

SDE

Well-known Member
I bought a new 4 terminal solenoid and I still have not been able to start the tractor with a key.
With the wire from the ign. switch removed from the solenoid, I get zero volts with the key in the on position. Turn the key to start and I get 12 volts. Put the wire on the solenoid and I get 12 volts with the key in the on position. If I ground the same terminal to the solenoid body with a wrench the starter will engage. Is there something wrong with this solenoid? I cleaned the starter body when I installed it so that it would be grounded properly. I do not think I turned any of the terminals when I connected the wires. Can I try to turn a terminal to get it to stop making a contact inside the body, or should I try to return it to NAPA?
Thank you
Steve
 
I cant say sitting here what solenoid you have so can only describe how a typical Ford type 4 terminal (2 big 2 small) solenoid works.

When in the "START" position a wire down from the IGN switch needs to send 12 votls to the solenoids small (S) Terminal (AND THE SOLENOIDS METAL CASE NEEDS A GOOD FRAME GROUND TO WORK) and the solenoid should engage click and pull in so she cranks.

The Ford Solenoids also have another small terminal labeled I which is hot ONLY WHEN THE SOLENOID IS ENGAGED. It can be used to by pass any ignition balalst resistor for a hotter starting spark in 12 volt tractors that use a 6 volt coil plus external ballast. Its (I terminal) not used if you have a 12 volt coil and dont use any ballast

Soooooooo insure the solenoids metal mount has a good frame ground,,,,,,,,,,,wires its S terminal to the IGN switch so when the switch is in START 12 volts is present

NOTE THIS IS FOR FORD TYPE SOLENOIDS if you have another solenoid let me know

John T
 
You need to make sure you're getting 12 volts to the S terminal on the solenoid when you twist the key to the start position. The other terminal should have voltage all the time since it feeds your ignition switch & voltage for the lights. Hal
7ysavmf.jpg
 
I have not seen a letter to identify the terminals. I anm assuming that the one that was the S terminal on the old is the same as the one on the new solenoid. I am going to ground the body with a jumper cable next and see if it helps.
Thank you
Steve
 
If the mount is grounded, jump 12 volts to a small terminal n see which one makes it engage (Thats the S terminal). The picture Hal was so kind to post is EXACTLY what I meant by a Ford type Solenoid. Thanks Hal

John T
 
I installed this solenoid on my garden tractor and later on the yoke on the hydraulic rod hit it causing a dead short. It was a little bit larger in size than the old solenoid, but difficult to see down inside the tractor's frame. Standard Ignition's solenoid p/n SS597A is about the same size as the old one. The cost was about $23.00 plus tax. The one in the pic was about $10.00. Hal
 
Yep Ive used them a lot to replace lawn mower or all other sorts of places where a 12 volt general purpose generic solenoid is required because THEY ARE CHEAP AND SO EASY. A word of caution to some here, many of these solenoids ARE NOT 100% DUTY RATED they are for short term starting type of use. I know because I tried them in some RV applications where the solenoid needed to be kept in for hours at a time so I had to get a different solenoid for that purpose although they look similar... I think in your picture the small terminal on the left is S and the right is I ??? A simple 12 volt test will answer that however

John T
 
I removed the wire that comes down from the ignition switch. Turned the key to the on postion and I have 12 volts at both of the small terminals. This is why I believe the solenoid has a short inside the case. The case is a metal canister instead of plastic like the one in your photo. Is there anything I can do to fix this new solenoid, besides buying another?
Thank you again
Steve
 
The solenoid you have is a ground to start (relay) that is used on many 6v and possibly 12v vehicles. The switch used to make them work is a grounding switch that has only one wire on it, and the body of the switch is grounded (just like the wrench to ground you said worked)
To do it as you wish, get a more recent Ford relay. JimN
 
I still cant say if you have a late Ford type solenoid or one like Janicholson mentioned????????

If its the late type AND IT WORKS and is grounded, when you apply 12 votls to the small S terminal THE OTHER LITTLE I TERMINAL IS SUPPOSED TO THEN GET HOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its lil I terminal is (supposed to be) hot ONLY when the solenoid is energized with 12 volts on its S terminal...

A test lamp and multimeter is all you need to check out that solenoid, its NOT rocket science. if its NOT the late Ford type but needs a ground ALL BETS ARE OFF and if I know that then I will guide you different or just do as Jim already told you

John T
 
I put the old solenoid back together again. ( I had stripped all the nuts off it) Re-installed it and the tractor is starting the way she was designed too. I am quite sure that the new solenoid is a piece of doo-doo. If NAPA will not refund some of the cost, I will take my business to the other end of town.
Thank you for your help,
Steve
 
I never checked for the voltage on the terminal without any machine nuts. I would think it would have voltage present all the time. The terminal with the machine nuts only had voltage when the key switch was twisted to make an engine
start. You don't want voltage on that terminal
all the time as it will keep the starter drive engaged.
I think your solenoid is defective. Hal
PS: If you can access your old solenoid easily you can pull off the wire that feeds battery voltage to your solenoid and check it with a volt meter. There shouldn't be any voltage present until you have someone make an attemot to start the engine. Make sure its out of gear
and the brakes are set. Keep your hands away from the starter drive. The way you've described how the old solenoid is working your new solenoid should work the same way.
 
jim, i ran in to those ground to start solenoids on my bucket truck. had some wiring issues when the birds build a nest up in the control box and had a heck of a time figuring out what was wrong until i realized the solenoids ground to engage the hydraulic lift motor. sheesh what a pain!!!
 
Jim I have to admit that my solenoid works by grounding. Never really thought much about until I read how you described how it works. Can't really see mine since its buried inside the frame with the battery box & battery sitting on top. Thanks for the lesson. Hal
 
(quoted from post at 16:30:02 11/21/09) I still cant say if you have a late Ford type solenoid or one like Janicholson mentioned????????

If its the late type AND IT WORKS and is grounded, when you apply 12 votls to the small S terminal THE OTHER LITTLE I TERMINAL IS SUPPOSED TO THEN GET HOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its lil I terminal is (supposed to be) hot ONLY when the solenoid is energized with 12 volts on its S terminal...

A test lamp and multimeter is all you need to check out that solenoid, its NOT rocket science. if its NOT the late Ford type but needs a ground ALL BETS ARE OFF and if I know that then I will guide you different or just do as Jim already told you

John T
Click to expand...

When the solenoid is installed, the I terminal will have power whenever the switch is on. The power will be coming from the wire, not from the solenoid.
 
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