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Mike CA 10-27-2009 12:37:01 99.28.152.102 735074 Report to Moderator	I was really pushing to have my tractor ready so I could pull a local Girl Scout troop in our town's holiday parade. I mean, I was really getting excited to finally use my tractor for something other than holding my garage floor down! Then someone mentions to me to make sure to look into insurance, as the parade organizers won't cover me. I hadn't thought about that, so I looked into it. My homeowners insurance MIGHT cover me, but I don't want to risk my home over this. So, I look into single event insurance to cover me. I figured it can't be THAT much for a single parade! $300. :shock: Awesome. So "sue-happy" Americans have ruined a hobby before I ever thought of getting a tractor. Now, if some little girl trips, her parents will sue me out of my home. Now I get to call the troop leader and tell her "Sorry, you'll have to find another way, unless you can come up with $300." So tell me, why am I doing all this again? Thoughts of just selling this thing are running through my mind. I am seriously upset. [Reply]   [No Email]
mkirsch 10-28-2009 09:34:07 64.80.108.57 735290 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   GeneMO, no offense intended here but you can't make assumptions like that... Insurance companies are always looking for ways to weasel out of providing promised services to its customers. This would be a classic corner case where the insurance company can say "kiss off" because of some obscure technicality in the policy wording. Never assume that you are covered. If you assume anything at all, assume you are NOT covered. You can thumb your nose at society and go ahead with the parade with no coverage. Odds are that you won't have a problem, but just as sure as you figure nothing bad's going to happen, one of the little monsters will do a half-gainer somersault off the wagon just for grins. Maybe the parents will be decent people, accept responsibility, and their medical insurance will pay for it. More likely they will be typical a-holes and go straight to the nearest personal injury lawyer, who will sue everyone in sight...   [Reply]   [No Email]
Mike CA 10-27-2009 23:28:25 99.28.152.102 735231 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   USAA won't do it. I've asked. So I have to seek an outside source.   [Reply]   [No Email]
IH2444 10-27-2009 20:43:39 72.147.27.221 735222 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Another view on this. If a kid did get hurt who would pay for her medical care? If you have insurance it is not an issue or possible bankrupting factor for you or her parents.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bernie Steffen 10-27-2009 19:36:54 173.25.81.198 735196 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Mike CA I added my tractor onto my homeowners policy to cover tractor rides and parades. Cost me 20 dollars a year. Pekin insurance from Pekin Illinois. Bernie Steffen   [Reply]   [No Email]
GeneMO 10-27-2009 18:26:50 71.51.197.123 735172 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Hey Mike, You can get sued for watering your grass. Dont worry about it and do the parade. You are not charging a fee so your homeowners insurance will cover you up to the limits of your liability. As long as you exercise precautions that any normal and reasonable person would use you will be OK. They will not take your home. If something happens, an accident, your ins company will either have to defend you, or pay the damages. Either way you are covered. Again, the key is, you are not charging a fee, you are not a commercial operation, you are not a business. It is no different than taking your neighbors kids to daycare. Again, in the sue happy world you can be sued for the most frivilous things, you can't worry about everything. If somebody does sue you, I know a VBSS team that can be had for beer. Gene   [Reply]   [No Email]
IH fan 10-27-2009 18:11:19 70.244.98.41 735160 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   I don't know how this would relate to tractors, but I belong to a gun club that has Boy Scouts use our range for training. We have them provide a written "disclaimer' or whatever you would call it that says their insurance will cover any accidents on our range. They even had a form they used for that, and I think the GSA would too.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Red Mist 10-27-2009 17:58:31 72.171.0.143 735155 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Lawyers are like shots of whiskey..... having a few are comforting. A whole bunch are nothing but grief.   [Reply]   [No Email]
dave2 10-27-2009 15:43:17 91.10.156.69 735122 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Sometimes mandating something for everyne isn't such a bad thing............. I pay 35 bucks for inspections/license plates every 2 years and 70 bucks a year for insurance and can sleep real good. Dave This post was edited by dave2 at 15:44:17 10/27/09.   [Reply]   [No Email]
bc 10-27-2009 15:37:03 69.148.145.104 735119 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Mike,we covered this the last time you talked about pulling a hayrack for some special event at work. I mentioned then about the hayrack ride here a few years ago where the kids began horsing around in back, a girl went over the side, and her head was run over by the wheel. Gruesome injuries. You would be doing yourself and the girls a favor to have the insurance. You go bankrupt when an injured girl sues you and an injured girl and her family go bankrupt cause they don't have the medical insurance to pay for her medical services. They end up with a quadriplegic and no way to support her. It only costs them a few bucks apiece and they are covered. It is easily foreseeable that kids may horse around a little bit. Better to call the troop leader to ask for $300 than to call the troop leader telling her you are sorry one of the scouts got run over and killed but you were afraid to ask for $300 for the insurance. When a dead or a quadriplegic girl's parents sue you or anyone else, it isn't because they are "sue happy", it's because some bozos caused injuries to their child. Those "sue-happy" Americans you are talking about are the parents of all those girl scouts you want to haul. What would you do if it was your kids who wanted to ride someone's hayrack and they were seriously injured or died? First read your homeowner's policy yourself and don't trust the agent if he says there is coverage and then go over those particular paragraphs with the agent. Also contact your agent about an umbrella policy. Not expensive and see if that covers you. A couple million isn't bad to have. Somethings can happen that just aren't your fault. What if another tractor rear ends your hayrack and they don't have insurance? Insurance can be your friend. Just shop around for something cheaper. If they parade organizers have event insurance, get it in writing from the company and their underwriter that your negligent acts are covered and the girls are covered with both medical and liability coverage. Depending upon comparative or contributory negligence, I can see everyone getting sued. A parade's insurance may not cover the negligent acts of others.   [Reply]   [No Email]
John T Country Lawyer 10-27-2009 14:36:37 66.244.97.31 735109 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Mike, believe me I HEAR YOU. As an attorney and tractor collector who participates in "parades" etc. these liability and insurance issues are often on my mind. I gave a Seminar at a Two Cylinder Expo some years back concerning Liability for tractor clubs and collectors.... Anytime you approach an insurance agent about any sort of one time or special event or a parade or hauling kids allllllllll the red flags go up and so do the rates. Im sure yall realize Liability for personal injury IS NOT the same as comprehensive insurance if your tractor burns up. Its when you charge someone to furnish a service such as hauling them etc and someone gets hurt THATS WHEN YOUR POTENTIAL LIABILITY CAN REALLY COME INTO PLAY...The problem is even if you do it as a good deed no charge for the Girl Scouts if a kid gets hurt you still may be at risk.. Still a person should be held accountable for their actions and the basic TORT liability and negligence rests on the old saying my Torts teacher used to preach "The Defendant has a duty not to expose the Plaintiff to a reasonably forseeable risk of injury" Its a jury/fact question as to whats reasonable and forseeable and where kids are concerned jury sympathy cuts in favor of the injured child sooooooooo you really really gotta be careful... As far as if say the scouting organizations insurance covers you personally I WOULDNT BET TOO MUCH ON THAT EITHER. I CAN TELL YOU THIS as far as insurance law is concerned ITS WHAT THE POLICY SAYS THAT COUNTS NOTTTTTTTT what the agent told you or myself or anyone here may think or believe, so again use caution in relying on what the scout leader or any lay person or the agent tells you....... So whats the answer?? Sorry I have none for you other then USE CAUTION AND EXTREME CARE AND BE DILIGENT and even if someone gets hurt youre NOT necessarily liable, accidents happen, to be personally liable you have to have owed a duty (see above) and breached it which was the proximate cause of the injury. Now if you can and choose to insure against the risk I would also advise that but if the cost is prohibitive you goota either bow out or assume the risk yourself, but you already knew that.. Nowwwww dont shoot me the messenger, I didnt like many lawyers myself which is partly why I became one just so I could fend for myself and that was ONLY AFTER I had a "real life" first as an engineer and farmer and used tractor dealer. Best wishes and good luck John T The Country lawyer   [Reply]   [No Email]
John G. Hasler 10-28-2009 05:21:50 174.124.36.161 735249 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to John T Country Lawyer, 10-27-2009 14:36:37   > NOTTTTTTTT what the agent told you or myself or > anyone here may think or believe, so again use > caution in relying on what the scout leader or > any lay person or the agent tells you... Verbal assertions are certainly worthless but I believe that a written statement signed by the agent through whom you purchased your insurance is binding on the company until they repudiate it in writing.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
John T Country Lawyer 10-28-2009 06:34:33 66.244.97.31 735261 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to John G. Hasler, 10-28-2009 05:21:50   Maybe and maybe NOT, if the insurance contract specifically contains some sort of legal schmegal clause like this document contains all the provisions and agreement among the parties and no other statements or writings apply HMMMMMMMMMM see what I mean???? Also theres there are the legal doctrines of four corners and the parol evidence rule that come into play which could render other side agreements or promises either void and/or perhaps not even admissible as evidence. The courts do NOT usually interpret or change the clear language of a contract, its ambiguities and holes they can fill in and insurance contacts are pretty much iron clad. However thats NOT to say a wrting by an agent can not have some authority (for sure, agency law still plays a part here), this is a very complex yet pretty well settled area of the law which is why I must still advise a person not to bet their life on what an agent might say or even write down (although I stil prefer his written versus oral promise), better safe then sorry I always figure Hope this helps but it takes whole libraries to cover this topic, it cant be explained here for sure best wishes and God Bless John T   [Reply]   [No Email]
ShaggyM 10-27-2009 14:05:59 173.24.165.31 735098 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   I am giong to switch back to Hagerty. (spelling)They are the Antique car Insurance company. It was pretty decent priced.   [Reply]   [No Email]
glennster 10-27-2009 14:04:31 76.217.101.141 735097 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   mike, ask your ins company about a "special event policy" they are a one day specific liability insurance policy. i did a hayrack ride for a local school haloween party a while back, and it was 50 dollars for a one day policy.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
Mike CA 10-27-2009 13:43:17 99.28.152.102 735091 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   mkirsch said: Hmm, I wonder if Grundy Worldwide would do collector tractors. They do collector cars and from what I've heard, they're very reasonably priced. Nope. Just called them, they said cars only. Another guy has J.C. Taylor, but they are closed. I'll call them tomorrow.   [Reply]   [No Email]
John G. Hasler 10-27-2009 13:41:58 174.124.36.161 735090 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   > My homeowners insurance MIGHT cover me, but I > don"t want to risk my home over this. Ask your agent. If he says yes have him put it in writing. Then there won"t be an "might" about it: you will be covered.   [Reply]   [Send Email]
mkirsch 10-27-2009 13:10:41 64.80.108.57 735083 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Hmm, I wonder if Grundy Worldwide would do collector tractors. They do collector cars and from what I've heard, they're very reasonably priced.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Mike CA 10-27-2009 13:10:01 99.28.152.102 735082 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   On hold with USAA right now speaking to them about what Darwindo posted. (He's asking his supervisor). Bob, there is a competitive pull at a yearly show I attend. I wanted to pull in it just for fun once. Given your circumsatances, would that count under your policy? That particular show is a moot point because I would be covered under my IHC chapter's insurance. But I'm asking as a talking point with my company, if it comes up.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Bob M 10-27-2009 12:59:36 151.190.254.108 735080 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Mike - Check with an insurance company that covers classic car collectors in your area. I found personal liability coverage for all 3 of my antique tractors for personal, non-commercial use (ie. shows, parades, etc) thru a collector car insurer. The policy also covers them for fire and theft after a $500(?) deductable. Cost is about $140 a year. The only activity my policy specifically excludes is participation in competitive (vs demonstration or "fun") antique tractor pulls.   [Reply]   [No Email]
farmallhfan 10-27-2009 12:53:06 72.155.5.143 735078 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Same thing happened to me I was going to pull one of the local schools FFA on a trailer with my H in our local parade. When the FFA adviser looked into it School system would not allow it because the old H wasn't a tagged insured mode of transit.   [Reply]   [No Email]
Darwindo 10-27-2009 12:49:01 70.58.220.73 735076 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   I added liability insurance on both my old tractors through Farm Bureau. They insure my house and cars. I also have an umbrella policy that covers stuff no one else covers. Adding the tractors cost around $125.00 per year per tractor and my agent tells me I am good for parades, tractor rides, antique shows, and hay rack rides.   [Reply]   [No Email]
oldiron29 10-27-2009 12:43:45 69.112.212.24 735075 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to Mike CA, 10-27-2009 12:37:01   Mike, If you join a tractor club Most of there show and events are covered under there insurance. So you will be able to particeapate in there events and the membership fees are much less than insurance. oldiron29   [Reply]   [Send Email]
HENRY E NC 10-27-2009 14:18:49 67.142.163.29 735104 Report to Moderator	Re: Insurance is going to ruin this hobby for me in reply to oldiron29, 10-27-2009 12:43:45   I pull my trailer decorated as a Christmas float with My Farnall M and a friend pulls my haywagon as a float with my Farmall A. The city has an event policy that covers us. Any city activity coveras all liability. Do you noy belong to a tractor club? mosy of them have resources for single event insurance or some even carry a year long policy. We don't because all our activity is when the city has an event. Dont give up. You will evemtually persevere. Henry   [Reply]   [No Email]