SA Clutch adjustment

I checked archives thinking Hugh must have covered this , but couldnt find itl
Farmall SA
When I come to a stop and leave the clutch in I can shift normally between all gears while engine is still running.
But if I let the clutch out in neutrol with the engine running, then push the clutch in, it grinds all gears and I cannot get it into any gear.
I have to shut down engine, shift into gear, then restart engine.
Is that clutch adjustment, I hope?
What is the proper clutch adjust procedure.
Thanks,
Dell

If there is too much free travel in the pedal, there could easily be a problem with the clutch not releasing completely, with resulting symptoms such as you describe. Free travel adjustment is just about the only thing that could be at fault unless you have a brand new clutch and pressure plate installed that was never set-up properly to start with.

Hugh would have told you to consult the manual. I will tell you the same thing.

There is the normal "Farmall crunch" or grind if you try to shift without waiting long enough for the shaft to stop spinning after disengaging the clutch, that's just the nature of the beaset. But if you can't get it into gear after five seconds of holding the pedal down, then, yes, you have something going on.

If the clutch releases enough to let you stop and shift it should also release after being engaged in neutral. I don't think your problem is the clutch but it wouldn't hurt to check your freeplay. By way of verifying, once the freeplay is set according to pedal travel, you should be able to peek in thorugh the hole in the left side of the bell and see about 1/4" between the face of the throwout bearing and the clutch fingers.

I'm more suspicious of your pilot bushing.

On the times you stop the tractor with the clutch engaged and can then shift, if you stopped with the transmission still engaged in a gear, that would stop the shaft as well, enabling you to shift to another gear. In that case the pilot bushing would be spinning around the end of the shaft as it should.

If you let it run in neutral with the clutch engaged, the shaft gets spinning at the same rate as the pilot bushing. If the pilot bushing is sticky from being dirty, there is enough angular momentum on the input gears at the back end of the shaft that the extra input from the sticky bushing could be enough to keep them turning. That could be the case even if the sticky bushing isn't enough to start the shaft up on it's own, either starting up up with the clutched released and the gearbox in neutral at the beginning of the day, or after releasing the clutch and stopping with the gears still engaged,which would be consistent with what you're experiencing.

I agree Scotty,
It has been on my mind why it stops and shifts so easily from a roll but not from a running neutrol. I have been thinking of a sticky throw out bearing.
I looked again thru the archives and found an excellant discussion with you, Mike and Hugh.
After reading that, I easily adjusted the pedal for a little less than an inch of pedal free travel. I am getting plenty of clutch travel that I should not be having grinding problems.
When I opened the port to grease the bushing I noticed a lot of dried dirt and grease.
I missed supper doing this so I am going to look at it again tomorrow pm.
I ran diesel fuel through the trans and actually it is pretty dang clean in there.
I found the inspection plate on the bottom of the bell.
He is the big question. What is the easiest way to free up the throw out bearing?
Dell

Good news on the tranny coming along in a promising way!

I'm thinking you got your description of the other work a little twisted up. The piece you got in and greased from the port on the side of the bell is the carrier for the throwout bearing. Tht carier is basically a bushing in that holds the bearing and slides it over your driveshaft to move the bearing into and out of the clutch fingers.

The bad news is that there is no easy way to deal with the pilot bushing, which is held by a tension fit into the rear end of the motor's crankshaft. It's only purpose in this weary old world is to support and center the front end of the shaft between the motor and the front of the transmission. It's a frightfully simple thing, nothing more than a bushing to the eye, but is made of what they call Oilite, which is a bronze-type alloy made in a way that it has some lubricative properties. And there's really not much to wear on it, but it picks up crud and gets sticky (from picking up dust from the field or fine particles from the clutch, either of which is only made worse by any oil that finds it's way from the motor or creeping forward on the shaft from a leak at the front of the transmission).

The only way to get to it is to split the tractor between the motor and the torque tube, and remove at least the clutch to get it out with a slide hammer fitted with an internal puller jaw, and probably the flywheel (a minor consideration once you're that far into it) to do a good job of driving the new one in.

As I said, sometimes it's just crud in or around the bushing, and some folks have gotten away with just splitting, then cleaning it up and all around it, fixing any leaks that might have contributed to the problem as they go along, and clapping it back together without actually changing out the bushing. I'm happy for their success, but it's a lot of work (not ugly, just a lot of set-up and wrenching) for a small part to leave it in place when with another fifteen minutes and the price of the part, it could be replaced.

Before flying into it (or getting thoroughly disgusted and cutting up the tractor!), you might be able to capitalize on the good news on the transmission. Good new oil in the transmission might provide enough friction to stop the input shaft or at least least slow it down to minimize the problem. You don't say where you are on the planet (too far north and this might not be a viable option if you need to run the tractor in the winter), but a lot of folks have had success in minimizing the problems created by a marginal pilot bushing by putting a stiffer oil (like 140, or a multiweight with 140 as the higher number) in the transmission. If it behaves better just with new oil, and your winter climate isn't too severe, you might want to consider trying the heavier oil before deciding to split the tractor.

I knew what I was greasing, I guess I didn't say it right. I changed a lot of clutches and pressure plates in my "hot rod" days.
I live in SW Michigan about 40 miles North of South Bend, IN.
I'm thinking of not splitting the tractor until spring to see what the cold does for it.
I read a good archive post by HM explaining exactly as you did about the pilot bushing being the grinding culprit and using a heavy oil to stop the trans.
Here is an idea that came to me.
What would be wrong with putting chain saw oil in the trans.
Either 100% or partial.
It would be sticky yet is an excellent lubricant. It is not under pressure and does move through ports or lines. All it has to do is lubricate some moving gears. And if it does not work I can always run some more diesel fuel through it.
Dell

Ya, I figgered you'd just got twisted up in describin' it. I've personally NEVER done anything like that myself. ;8^) Yeah, right.

Interesting idea about using bar oil.

On the one hand (I'm no kind of mechanical or chemical engineer) I have to wonder if it isn't just a stiff, bare bones oil with little or nothing for additives to give it any longevity. It doesn't need to last. It gets hot once and once it's used it's gone. I doubt it has any of the sorts of things in it that a regular tranny/rear end oil would have for longevity of whatever components of the formulation smooth/cushion the meshing of the gears.

On the flip side, I remember an EXcellent CarQuest shop I used to patronize in the Catskills. They had a little handcrank gizmo sitting on the counter for a diversion while you waited. Clear plastic, two sets of gears inside, each with its own cute little hand crank. Provided by the Lucas folks to promote their additives. Once set of gears, on the left side, was plain gear oil, lower gear carried it to the upper when you turned the crank, and you'd wathc it run right back down. The other side, with the additive, actually made me think of bar oil as the lower gear would move gobs of it up to flow down over the upper gear.

Myself, I'd try something like an 85W140 before I'd try bar oil to stiffen anything. That said, a lot of these old hoss trannies have run for years with water in them, too (you've seen what that looks like!) and are still going, so I can't imagine that an oil for another purpose is going to hurt anything. If you want to try it, I wouldn't suggest more than a quart of bar oil as a stiffener along with four of a conventional gear oil, of whatever grade you settle on.

If you can find some of the Lucas TRANNY oil additive, you might consider using that instead of the bar oil and either buy some or, if nothing else, read the back of the bottle for suggested ratios of additive to regular oil and use that as a guide for how much bar oil you might want to cut in.

Kudos for an interesting idea.

I have the same problem with my super a (1953). I found if I would push the cluch in and wait a little time for shaft to stop turning, i could go from neutral to any gear with scraping. works for me.