Farmall M Engine

Gents,
Its been a while. I took my Farmall M engine to the machinist about 9 months ago. Crank reground, new valves, springs, seals, cam, cam bearings, etc. etc. etc. It will be nice, but the price tag was .... uh $2500

Wow! I was quite disappointed, I had no intention of spending that much. I can use my M for some things around the farm, maybe, but with the pto set-up, lacking hydraulics and no three point hitch, it will definately never be a modern farm tractor. I have the money, thats not the issue, its the practicality?

I guess from a common sense standpoint I'm tempted to tell him to keep the motor since the cost is nearly 3 times the estimate......but, I like this old tractor, just because....

Any opinions would be nice.

For that price it should be a pretty nice engine. That said, having him do it all it doesn't sound all that far out of line. If I was building an engine like that for myself (as in my labour) I'd be figuring about $1000CAD for the parts and another $500 for machining (head, crank) that I can't do myself. If you took the engine to him, just add $1000 for labour. Say 10-15hrs to strip the engine, and 15-25 to build it back up again. Just my thoughts, Sam

If the estimate is in hand (on paper) and there was no phone call saying "gee this is going to cost 1000$ more! I would arbitrate a reduction to 50% over the estimate. I think the shop is using you as a cash cow.
If they were in touch, and did communicate well, I would see no reason to not pay up.
You can put live hydro, and 3 point on that tractor. Saginaw makes great hitches, and there are many ways to do the klive hydro. (or use the non live belly pump. it works!! JimN

TELL HIM TO KEEP THE ENGINE YOU CAN BUY GREAT RUNNING M ENGINES FOR $750 OR LESS
CALL 651-307-1206 HE HAS PLENTY OF THEM AND HE CAN SHIP SAVE MONEY ITS ONLY A M ID NEVER PUT 2500 IN A M ENGINE NO WAY!
GOOD LUCK

As a cessnapilot it seems you would be used to overpaying for less value.
Just kidding, I have friends that drive cessnas, but you didnt hear that from me.

Sam and Jim both have valid points.
If you took it to him and said here, fix this. Then its gonna cost ya.
But if you have a quote in writing there is usually a clause that says if it goes over **% of estimate it has to be approved before work is done.

This brings up a sore spot I have had for years. In the aviation community it seems that the longer your plane sits in the maintenance hanger the bill goes up proportionately. If he says it will be 5 days and it is still setting in the corner all by itself 15 days later, the price goes up about 300 per week whether any one touches it or not. I think they just let them set there to make it look like a bigger job than it is.
Auto mechanics do this all the time. If the rate book says it is a hour and a half jof and they do it in 1/2 hour they still charge you the 1 1/2 hrs. which ought to be against the law. If it took them longer than 1 1/2 hr you can bet your bottom they would charge you for it.
Dell

Wow,2500.and nine months to boot?That's very salty,esp. to rebuild a simple engine as an M.

Times they have changed for sure. Back in the days when Ms were the main workhorses on our farm we would pull one in shed some rainy day and be back in field with it 2 days later with overhauled engine Expense was never over 2/3 hundred dollars. The engines were not rebuilt to standards of many on this forum but don't remember one that did not run at least several thousand hours.

That seems really high. It seems like you were building a racing engine. A lot of the parts you replaced probably did not need replacing. The M is a low RPM engine.

i agree with tractor sam, doesnt sound too out of line if the shop did the motor start to finish and hands you a turnkey motor. i am doing a super m motor right now, have the bottom end all done, my labor, machine shop did the crank, resized the rods and new bushings, cam bearings, head work ect. i have about 1500 outlay for just parts and machining, and i am doing the assembly. we had our machine shop do a 360 engine for a javelin we are restoring, nothing fancy, solid 450 hp street motor, bill on that with the break in and dyno run was right at 10 grand.

Thanks for all the opinions. I did take the engine in, drop it off and say fix it....but I also told him to call me if it was anywhere near or over 1000 bucks. I did not have a formal written quote ( my stupidilty) After being involved in aviation, I didn't think it was possible to be surprised with a bill.

Supposedly he is a very reputable race/tractor pulling engine builder, but I told him I wanted it stock.

By the time I get this tractor done (engine, tires, paint, 3 pt. hitch and hydraulics, I'll have 5000 in it. Oh and the tractor was given to me.

I think maybe I've made an expensive mistake. I've seen a lot of nice M's for much less. Hmm

Be thankful it wasn't a Lycoming 360. I had a annual done on my Cessna with visions of just a few hundred bucks. $6,288.86 later, I got my airplane back. (Had to float a loan)

You guys are not doing many tractor engines are you? Machine work is not cheap anymore around here.You have a crankshaft reground,head worked(new valves seats polished guides replaced)pin bushing's renewed in a set of rods,block hot tanked well,you have spent quite a bit already.Now add the parts sleeve kit,gaskets ect and the labor and tax and yes,a good business will easily command that much for a job.Many of the old tractors worked on here at my place won.t bring much more than the cost of a proper engine rebuild job.And most of them need much more than that to get them dependable again.You take an old Farmall or Ford and make the engine like new again and nine times out of ten you have to do more to make it a usable tractor.Things like cleaning and sealing the fuel tank,radiator repair,replacement,charging system repair ect.I try to always have an understanding about potential cost of a job with the customer before i start a job.I also am not at all bashful about calling them up when i find suprises while working on one either.This is a fun hobby but,the fun part can sour in a hurry if you can't do the work yourself.Outside labor is expensive but remember,that guy has to make a living too.I also have a couple of "trailer queens"sitting out in the barn right now.I bought them cheap and had big plans for them.However to make them new again would have cost much more than they will ever be worth.So i made them as pretty as i could and take them to shows and rides.They look good and run good but they are not working tractors.To put them back in that condition would cost more than they would ever be worth.I have others that are working tractors that i have a lot of money and time invested in.What i am saying is this,Even though it might seem to be a bargin at the time of purchase that is not always the case.Nothing is cheap anymore.The longer a man stays with the hobby the more he will learn.Sometimes i think i have stayed too long.

sounds in the ballpark for a complete rebuild. i have spent 500.00 to get one of those heads done. thats everything new. valves, seats,guides and installation and grinding. then you have the sleeves and pistons and rings.the camshaft and brgs.crankshaft.and brgs.dont forget all the other little items lifters, need them once you put a cam in.governor, and carb and dist.work.dont forget gskts. thats about 200.00.i am afraid once you factor labour in thats what your looking at. and you have a NEW engine.so how can you sell a restored tractor for 2500.00? go figure.

I just got my C123 back from rebuild and it was pretty close to 2800 stock and I'm gonna use it pulling stock class.

I a just got my SH motor back and spent $2700.00. Everything is either new or was put in new condition. I had a cracked head and had to chase down a rebuildable one. I knew going in that I would have more in it that what I could sell it for. This is a hobby for me. It is not an investment or a source of income.I will have 5-6 grand in it before I get it the way I want it. I know I could have probably found one ready to use but that wasn't the point. I know exactly what I have when it's done. I also submit that given enough time you can sell it for more than what you have in it. After all alot of these 50+ year old tractors are selling now for more than what they cost new.

(quoted from post at 18:26:42 10/15/09) Thanks for all the opinions. I did take the engine in, drop it off and say fix it....but I also told him to call me if it was anywhere near or over 1000 bucks. I did not have a formal written quote ( my stupidilty) After being involved in aviation, I didn't think it was possible to be surprised with a bill.

Supposedly he is a very reputable race/tractor pulling engine builder, but I told him I wanted it stock.

By the time I get this tractor done (engine, tires, paint, 3 pt. hitch and hydraulics, I'll have 5000 in it. Oh and the tractor was given to me.

I think maybe I've made an expensive mistake. I've seen a lot of nice M's for much less. Hmm

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That $5,000 may be more than what you will get out of the tractor IF you wanted to sell it, but I'll guarantee you that the same $5,000 WILL NOT buy a tractor that will be as good as your M when it is all done. $5,000 just doesn't go very far today in the used tractor market, and anything you find that can be purchased for $5,000 will either be very small or very worn out.