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- Thread starter jeffalex2
- Start date
If you are talking about a disc of the same vintage a 12 foot will be fine. You will likely pay a huge premium for an 8 foot.(quoted from post at 03:53:29 10/03/09) How large of a wheel disc can a Super M pull? I have no ballast in the tires and 2 wheel weights on each side. I'm looking for a 8-10 foot wheel disc within reasonable distance of MD.
Thanks
Stephen Atkins
Member
We had an 11ft. tandem we pullled with our SM. It was all it wanted power and traction wise.
steveormary
Should pull a 10' under any conditions and up to a 12' in good conditions. Dad pulled 10' with JD 60s which are less HP and an 11 1/2' with a 460 which is about the same HP.(quoted from post at 05:53:29 10/03/09) How large of a wheel disc can a Super M pull? I have no ballast in the tires and 2 wheel weights on each side. I'm looking for a 8-10 foot wheel disc within reasonable distance of MD.
Thanks
soybeanjoe
Member
Back in the day we pulled a 10' Kewanee wheel disc & 2 section drag harrow with our SM. After we purchased a 450 we bought an 13 1/2' IH # 37 disc and on occasion pulled it with the SM. Tractor didn't have any problems pulling the 10' but the #37 was a load for it. Tractor was dualed & had fluid in inside rears.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Always pulled a 13 1/2' Krause with my Super M. Never a Problem.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Jeffalex: I have no idea where these guys get their disks. I had an 8' Cockshutt (28 - 16"
blades) back in the early 60s and it could make my 300 sweat Had a newer 44 - 18" blade Cockshutt in the late 60s, and my 656D or 560D didn't exactly run away with it, then later a 88 - 20" blade Bush Hog that loaded a 1066.
Width of cut is quite meaningless, it's the size of blade that creates hp need. A 10' foot disk with 7.5" spacing has a few more blades than a 10" disk with 9" spacing. There are also disks out there with 7.5" on front and 9" behind. Another factor, worn blades require far less hp. It will surprise you how many folks have never used anything but well worn blades, they don't do much but will pull easy.
If you have good blades, 16" is going to take 1 hp per blade, 18" will take 1.25 hp per blade and 20" will take 1.5 hp per blade. Anyone who tells you he's pulling more than that has well worn blades, or he's full of what is being incorperated.
blades) back in the early 60s and it could make my 300 sweat Had a newer 44 - 18" blade Cockshutt in the late 60s, and my 656D or 560D didn't exactly run away with it, then later a 88 - 20" blade Bush Hog that loaded a 1066.
Width of cut is quite meaningless, it's the size of blade that creates hp need. A 10' foot disk with 7.5" spacing has a few more blades than a 10" disk with 9" spacing. There are also disks out there with 7.5" on front and 9" behind. Another factor, worn blades require far less hp. It will surprise you how many folks have never used anything but well worn blades, they don't do much but will pull easy.
If you have good blades, 16" is going to take 1 hp per blade, 18" will take 1.25 hp per blade and 20" will take 1.5 hp per blade. Anyone who tells you he's pulling more than that has well worn blades, or he's full of what is being incorperated.
I do know that one of the JD 10' discs was [u:1a3ff3bf74]new[/u:1a3ff3bf74] and not JDs lightweight disc, it was their heavyweight flexable disc from 1953, whatever model that was. New 1953 JD 60, 3x14" plow and 10' disc. The later (after I was grown and gone from home) 460 and 11 1/2' Kewanee were both used and the disc diameters may have been worn, but were rolled and sharp. Maybe the NE Iowa ground works easier than where you live... I know it was not clay on top.(quoted from post at 19:40:19 10/03/09) Another factor, worn blades require far less hp. It will surprise you how many folks have never used anything but well worn blades, they don't do much but will pull easy.
I used to take a weeks vacation in the summer to help a friend here in Kansas. He bought a new 25' Krause flex-wing with the narrow spacing and I pulled it with a 155 Hp JD 4640.... how does that add up in your part of the world? Would you have been pulling an 18' or 20' instead and maybe a 6x16" plow instead of that 8x16" plow he pulled (I never personally pulled that one but used his 970 Case and 5x16")?
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: Just maybe if farmers disked a bit deeper we wouldn't have so much rough land. Smooth land has 3 rules, uniform plowing, deep disking and shallow on the finishing cultivator. My dad's test for smooth land, (on sod of course) if he could drive his 57 Chevy at 50 mph across the field it was smooth. Don't confuse smooth with level. I'm afraid poor old dad and his Chevy would be quite badly shook up following some of these hot shot new farmers. As I drive country roads, seeing a guy operating a 150 hp dualed tractor, wearing a hard hat to prevent injury on cab posts, you know damn well it ain't smooth.
Never had to wear a hard hat in the cab of that 4640 and never had a ROPS or cab on anything Dad had, but still not a problem. Disked at 6 1/2mph with the 4640.(quoted from post at 09:45:18 10/04/09) As I drive country roads, seeing a guy operating a 150 hp dualed tractor, wearing a hard hat to prevent injury on cab posts, you know damn well it ain't smooth.
soybeanjoe
Member
True, width of cut doesn't tell a lot nut neither does blade diameter. Different soil types pull different, slope is another factor, but the biggest factor is that little stop on the hyd cylinder. :~)
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
Joe: Agreed, that little adjustment makes a huge difference.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: And there is the problem, disking at 6.5mph. Disks start bouncing at slightly over 5 mph, you may not see it, but it creates a rough subsoil. Rough subsoil acts exactly the same as the road grader operator that didn't cut the whole road to depth of deepest pot hole. The pot holes show up again within days. Fields will act the same.
The plows and disks we've seen to date have been engineered for 4-5 mph. Plow has the ability to cut a uniform depth, then disk will chop everything within that depth, then we use a cultivator to smooth it out, and the cultivator should be up around 6-7 mph. Much over that and most cultivators I've seen start bouncing, leaving soil like waves on water. Shank breakage will increase dramatically at speeds over 8 mph.
You may not think this is important, but at the cost of crop inputs today, you want that seed germination close to perfect. Single biggest factor in achiving that is having that seed bed smooth. Again don't confuse smooth with level. I say that as most of what I said in thread has gone right over your head. Perhaps, had you been paying the bills back in 4640 days, rather than driving dad's tractor, you may understand this a bit better.
The plows and disks we've seen to date have been engineered for 4-5 mph. Plow has the ability to cut a uniform depth, then disk will chop everything within that depth, then we use a cultivator to smooth it out, and the cultivator should be up around 6-7 mph. Much over that and most cultivators I've seen start bouncing, leaving soil like waves on water. Shank breakage will increase dramatically at speeds over 8 mph.
You may not think this is important, but at the cost of crop inputs today, you want that seed germination close to perfect. Single biggest factor in achiving that is having that seed bed smooth. Again don't confuse smooth with level. I say that as most of what I said in thread has gone right over your head. Perhaps, had you been paying the bills back in 4640 days, rather than driving dad's tractor, you may understand this a bit better.
I sure see a lot of farmers disking at that speed. This was for a friend here in Kansas in the '70s & '80s and was on wheat stubble, not plowed ground. He had at various times, a Case 1030, 970 & 1070, M-F 1155 and the JD 4640 when I helped him. I suspect what we are dealing with here is a difference in farming practices in different parts of the country on different crop land. As a kid in Iowa, we didn't disk that fast with the JD 60s and 10' disks... no way a 60 would pull a 10' disk that fast unless there was [u:e44b2f959b]no[/u:e44b2f959b] angle on the gangs.
My wife's cousin that recently bought her land near Greensburg, KS (that tornado formed almost over her property but didn't hit her irrigation circle) does not even own a piece of tillage equipment any more... he farms several irrigated quarters of corn and beans, all no-till. Takes all the fun out of farming IMO.
My wife's cousin that recently bought her land near Greensburg, KS (that tornado formed almost over her property but didn't hit her irrigation circle) does not even own a piece of tillage equipment any more... he farms several irrigated quarters of corn and beans, all no-till. Takes all the fun out of farming IMO.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: In our part of the world, we go into farming to make MONEY, not for the fun of it. Those guys no till because it makes money. They will someday plow, disk and cutivate to level the land, often as needed, much like a hay crop.
I've been around farming well over a half century, I watch what folks are doing. I don't have to enter or walk on the field to see rough sub soil. Watching the tractor from the highway will tell all. Our land base across North America is much rougher than it was 50 years ago, and most of that has been created by clowns going too fast during tillage operations.
I've been around farming well over a half century, I watch what folks are doing. I don't have to enter or walk on the field to see rough sub soil. Watching the tractor from the highway will tell all. Our land base across North America is much rougher than it was 50 years ago, and most of that has been created by clowns going too fast during tillage operations.
I realize why they do it, I'm not totally stupid. However, if I were farming and I didn't enjoy it anymore, I'd quit and go to work for a hydraulics company or something dumb.(quoted from post at 20:31:39 10/07/09) IHFan: In our part of the world, we go into farming to make MONEY, not for the fun of it. Those guys no till because it makes money. .
I had the opportunity to go into farming before I joined the Air Force, but in those days there was a little thing called "the draft". No sense starting something and then getting drafted, which would most likely have happened when things got stirred up in SE Asia (as it was, I almost got called back a few weeks after getting out in '65). Things changed in my life during those 4 years so I never got back to the farm except to help out a few other people. I always enjoyed field work, but this no-till thing for me would not be enjoyable because of using chemicals instead of tilling or cultivating.
scot in pa
Member
I'll agree there. We had a 22' IH disk that I pulled one year with the 1566, in hi-1 usually, and the stops set to where the wheels were just carrying a little weight. Did a great job
The next year I wasn't there, they put it behind the Steiger and lifted the wheels off the ground. With all the slop in the drawbar and the oversize hole in it, there was so much slop the LF corner would dig in, and the tongue would swing over that way, then the right would do the same thing. Talk about rough ground.
Sod I usually double-lapped in hi-1 or low-4 (usually disked with a 10), and on chiseled ground or moldboarded corn ground hi-1 or hi-2.
And I always disked at least 60 feet across the end. That was over 6 widths of the haybine, or later, 4 widths of the discbine. I couldn't get my one cousin to disk the ends past the headland and woulda like ta kick his teeth in when it came time to make hay.
The next year I wasn't there, they put it behind the Steiger and lifted the wheels off the ground. With all the slop in the drawbar and the oversize hole in it, there was so much slop the LF corner would dig in, and the tongue would swing over that way, then the right would do the same thing. Talk about rough ground.
Sod I usually double-lapped in hi-1 or low-4 (usually disked with a 10), and on chiseled ground or moldboarded corn ground hi-1 or hi-2.
And I always disked at least 60 feet across the end. That was over 6 widths of the haybine, or later, 4 widths of the discbine. I couldn't get my one cousin to disk the ends past the headland and woulda like ta kick his teeth in when it came time to make hay.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: Facts are no till guys actually use less chemicals than the guys that till. I farmed all my life, and I do know. Lets face it, with a farming career like yours, most of us full timers forgot more than you ever knew.
I'm not disputing your word there, I'm sure you know much more about current chemical practices, but I still say different parts of the country use different farming practices. Dispute that if you want, but I don't need to be a full timer to see that just driving across country. I think those dairy cows have kicked you in the head one too many times :lol: .(quoted from post at 18:09:18 10/08/09) IHFan: Facts are no till guys actually use less chemicals than the guys that till. I farmed all my life, and I do know. Lets face it, with a farming career like yours, most of us full timers forgot more than you ever knew.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: Well cared for cows, carried out under good animal husbandry practices, don't kick people in the head. Lets face it your a wanna be farm boy that never grew up.
You are right about that [u:fae990e507]one[/u:fae990e507] thing... I am a wannabe farm boy.(quoted from post at 20:24:31 10/08/09) IHFan: Well cared for cows, carried out under good animal husbandry practices, don't kick people in the head. Lets face it your a wanna be farm boy that never grew up.
Now, lets just agree to disagree about varying tillage practices and not get too personal from now on.
Now I'm going back to the Mizzou/ Nebraska game.
Your formula is pretty close, a No 37 IH disc came from the factory with 16 inch blades @ 7 inch spacing. The SM will handle a 12 footer in 3rd gear which is about as fast as your butt will stand.(quoted from post at 17:40:19 10/03/09) Jeffalex: I have no idea where these guys get their disks. I had an 8' Cockshutt (28 - 16"
blades) back in the early 60s and it could make my 300 sweat Had a newer 44 - 18" blade Cockshutt in the late 60s, and my 656D or 560D didn't exactly run away with it, then later a 88 - 20" blade Bush Hog that loaded a 1066.
Width of cut is quite meaningless, it's the size of blade that creates hp need. A 10' foot disk with 7.5" spacing has a few more blades than a 10" disk with 9" spacing. There are also disks out there with 7.5" on front and 9" behind. Another factor, worn blades require far less hp. It will surprise you how many folks have never used anything but well worn blades, they don't do much but will pull easy.
If you have good blades, 16" is going to take 1 hp per blade, 18" will take 1.25 hp per blade and 20" will take 1.5 hp per blade. Anyone who tells you he's pulling more than that has well worn blades, or he's full of what is being incorperated.
Hugh MacKay
Well-known Member
IHFan: I have no problem with that.
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