mkirsch who are you to tell me what i can post

This is a open topic im free to say what ever the hell i wanna say. I support american farmers and new ideas to run our cars on. Oh there is goverment moneny in it well guess what there is goverment subs on all gas and oil not just e 85. keep suporting the people who want to kill us and ill support americans.

Nice Strawman argument. He didn't say anything about offering support for people who want to kill us. He just doesn't agree with E85 because it's a wasteful process.

Not supporting E85 doesn't make a person unamerican. I've read some findings, and it does seem like a poor attempt at an alternate fuel. Right now, farmers can't keep up with production demand, and that's before there is actually a real support of it. If the American people as a whole demanded E85, and ALL farming in the U.S. was diverted for just that purpose, supply STILL couldn't meet demand, all edible produce would have to be imported and would be expensive, and the price per gallon of E85 would sky rocket.

It's just not a viable solution. It may be a suppliment, but will never be able to stand on it's own.

P.S. That still doesn't mean I support those who want to kill us. My kid plays with a toy made in China. Does that mean I support Communism too? That's a big negative.

Mike dont know where you get your info but we exported record amounts used record amounts and still have the largest carryoner. So what crop are you talking about put the money out there and the AMERICAN FARMER will deliver always has and always will unless you stupid people in Calif come up with more reasons to curtail production like you have done already and want to do more.
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ive read some of his comments and he rubs people the wrong way.sure lets do it all electric hydrogen switch grass. look at brazil took care of there smog prob and they run almost all alcohol gas is 3 x higher. as far as winning the debate you cant because someone has all the answers. All i know is it creats jobs in rual communites that would might be ghost towns There not making it because they get out what they put in nope foke im sorry on that one. i see more and more stations carring it know and it is avalabel in almose every state.they do that because we get less energy out then we put in . every one says it would not make it with out goverment support, oil gets money from the goverment and lots of it. in minnesota they are gonna force 20% blend pretty soon and guess what all the cars will run fine. (weed wips too) my 10 cents john zumbrota mn

Mike get your facts straight. You don't know diddly about ethanol or the supply demand side of corn. There is plently of it to go around. I imagine you and all the other California tree huggers are convinced that the run up in food prices was caused by high grain prices? WRONG!! It was caused by high oil prices. Sure grain prices were way high but the amount of actual grain in a given food product and its cost are such a tiny part of the to conclude high grain prices were to blame for high food prices. It was greed on the part of people long after the grain left the farm. Ethanol is not the complete answer. It is merely a piece of the puzzle that will make up our energy structure in the future. Sure ethanol is subsidized. So what? So is big oil and just about every other thing you consume everyday.

This is a forum about tractors. The question of whether old Farmalls will run well on E85 is relevant here but the politics of ethanol are not. Please take your political discussion elsewhere. There are many forums where such are welcome.

Seems like this a hot button issue. The farmers that product the grain that is being used to make the E85 like the program. Those of us who have to pay you with our taxes hate it (It is indisputable that it is an expensive inefficient process). If you are going to be in favor of E85 grow a thick skin because some of us will be very critical. Calling names like Mike was called was out of line. E85 cost him money which you farmers are demanding he pay. Let him show up at your door and demand that you subsidize his salary and you will also get upset. You better learn to look at both sides before you become so ugly to the other, especially those of us who have to pay the bill. E85 will be discontinued in time so I would advise that you do not make your expansion plans based on the continued high price of corn unless you can pay it out in a very short time or it can be diverted to another use or you expect that other issues will keep the price of corn up. The U.S. gov is broke.

(quoted from post at 08:46:13 09/26/09) Seems like this a hot button issue. The farmers that product the grain that is being used to make the E85 like the program. Those of us who have to pay you with our taxes hate it (It is indisputable that it is an expensive inefficient process). If you are going to be in favor of E85 grow a thick skin because some of us will be very critical. Calling names like Mike was called was out of line. E85 cost him money which you farmers are demanding he pay. Let him show up at your door and demand that you subsidize his salary and you will also get upset. You better learn to look at both sides before you become so ugly to the other, especially those of us who have to pay the bill. E85 will be discontinued in time so I would advise that you do not make your expansion plans based on the continued high price of corn unless you can pay it out in a very short time or it can be diverted to another use or you expect that other issues will keep the price of corn up. The U.S. gov is broke.

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How do you consider 3.00 high priced corn? Do any of you people have a clue as to how much it costs to produce a bushell of corn? The government is broke, but the subsidy on alchohol is an insignificant amount.

Well put!!! Thank you.

You really don't have a clue do you pal? Mike's pay is being subsidized. He is in the military you idiot. It happens to be a subsidy I don't mind paying either. You don't think straight gasoline is subsidized. What in the word do you think has been going on the last twenty years with our troops over in the mideast. Its all about oil buddy. All of the military action over there is a subsidy for oil and gasoline. That is fact. You don't have a clue what it costs to grow a bushel of corn I'll bet. You don't care either do you. You just want everything on the cheap. Food, gas, you freedom, you name it you people think you are entitled to everything at rock bottom dirt cheap Walmart prices.

Man, you can sure tell the "Wild Turkey" flows freely on the weekends.....
mike

you don't really have a clue for sure.A service mans pay is not subsidized. It is pay for a job well done better than most. Men like Mike never know what tomorrow brings. Order tomorrow to deploy only God knows where, leaving family without husband and father for months and years(I was gone almost 4 years) not seeing all the things that a dad needs to see. People like you need to go live somewhere else(like Iran) if that is how you feel. Henry

Well johnny2006, if you can say whatever the hell you want to say, then so can I. It goes both ways, bud.

I didn't like what you had to say. You didn't like what I had to say. Welcome to the United States of America.

(quoted from post at 16:46:09 09/26/09) you don't really have a clue for sure.A service mans pay is not subsidized. It is pay for a job well done better than most. Men like Mike never know what tomorrow brings. Order tomorrow to deploy only God knows where, leaving family without husband and father for months and years(I was gone almost 4 years) not seeing all the things that a dad needs to see. People like you need to go live somewhere else(like Iran) if that is how you feel. Henry

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Since when are the armed forces self supporting, when I was in the military 100% of my pay came from tax dollars.

Ole Hank is kind of missing my point. I'm not against the armed forces. My brother is a 25 year veteran of the AirForce and served in two wars. The point is that our armed forces are wholly and fully subsidized by the US taxpayer. Granted that is a subsidy that is being used to protect us and our freedom. I have no problem with that. The part I do have a problem with is that our armed forces are being used to subsidize big oil. These people have the nerve to sqawk about the paltry amount that the government is spending to subsidize ethanol compared to big oil. How dare the government make them burn something in their car that is better for the environment and can be produced in this country. Oh but wait... it is being subsidized and costs a little more part of the time. Wah, wah, wah. Boo hoo, boo hoo. Crying me a frigging river. Some of you guys on here that own a tractor and never had to earn a living on one can just kiss my @#*.

How did this thread go from an E85-Love it or get out debate, to bringing the military in on it? :lol: Gotta love the internet.

Someone mentioned that my pay in the Navy is not self-supporting. Well, you are wrong. When I pilage a country, and take the gold and precious gems out of a castle, I keep that. How do you think I bought my H?

Oh, wait. I don't pilage. That was the vikings. Crap. Oh well... ok, taxes do pay my salary. I don't think many folks really mind that though. But some mind a whole lot of other programs that are tax funded. I know E85 is one of them.

Now... me? I can't say I'm passionate one way or the other about the subject. I've read and heard some things about it. Like Baelee said:

Mike get your facts straight. You don't know diddly about ethanol or the supply demand side of corn...

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You are probably right. I wasn't quoting a particular source, just going off of spotty memory. But my intent wasn't to promote the "Con" side of the debate. My intent in posting was to say that a person shouldn't have his citizenship and loyalty to this country questioned because he doesn't support E85, which is what I was reading from Jonny2006. I don't agree with that at all. This country was founded on the 1st amendment, and people from all over seem to be losing focus on those Constitutional rights lately.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Oh, and one more piece of advice I've tucked away... "Never debate E85 with a corn farmer." :lol:

Ok, I have been sitting on the sidelines watching this one. I guess we need to update an old cliche':

Never talk religion or politics in a family, work, or public setting. Let's add E85 to that list........

C'mon boys, I grew up on a farm, I spent time in the Navy, and I have in my career worked on Gov contract services. Anyone remember post-WWII the land bank program where farmers were paid NOT to plant crops?

Anytime the US, State, or Local Gov gets involved with something that is a non-crisis (uh like Pearl Harbor, 911, etc) everyone will have an opinion, and no one, repeat no one will agree on all points.

Everyone I have interacted with on this board seems to be decent folk, so why on God's earth do we want to kick each other in the teeth? Remember, opinions are like your posterior......everyone has one, and the other guy's usually stinks......

Brazil also makes their ethanol from sugar cane instead of corn, which is a lot more efficient. If it weren't for a tariff on ethanol it would still be cheaper to import it from Brazil than make it from corn. Corn ethanol is a stop-gap measure, but there are much more promising ideas and technologies out there.

Tom: Well said. In the two-three decades fillowing WW#2, we in North America had a reasonable free market economy. Ah, but this today is nothing more than socialized business.