Farmall 504 Clutch Issues: All Suggestions Welcome

I have a 1962 Farmall 504 Diesel with TA. I got it from my father about 3 years ago. He had replaced the engine clutch, TA clutch, and reworked the TA to some degree (ramps, rollers, and knurled something) 10 of so years ago. After all this, we split it again and did something else to the TA. It was always difficult to shift after comming to a stop with the clutch pedal down and in direct drive. The only way to shift was to pull the TA lever into TA then select gear then back into direct.

Once I aquired this black sheep of the stable, found this site. I have posted many issues and improvements to this little 504. The members that make this forum are priceless, Thank You!

I since have bought some Blue Ribbon manuals, IH parts manual, and the Operators Manual to complement my I&T Manual. I adjusted the clutch and TA per the book and have had good luck... SO FAR.

About 3-4 weeks ago I noticed that it was hard to shift (grinding) when the RPM's were up, but ok at low RPM. One day I was moving some dirt and it was getting difficult to get into gear. I adjusted the clutch rod only and it improved.

About a week ago I started some intense mowing with my rotary mower in VERY DUSTY conditions. I am mowing new ground behind dozers cutting weeds 5-7 ft tall.

Today I went to mow and could not get into gear after starting, constant gear clash. I got out the book and adjusted to the tee. I even adjusted it to the point that the throw out bearing was engaged into the forks and it would try to pull the tractor while starting in gear.

I told you all this to set up what I suspect MAY have happened. I removed the flywheel cover about six months ago to look at a possible rear main leak. I painted the cover and forgot about it. A ring gear on a flywheel acts like a vacuum pump and it may have pulled in dust and chaf then mixed wirh the light oil leak and gummed up the clutch or pressure plate.

My father has seen a pressure plate finger nut some loose and cause a button (4 pad clutch) to drag, but not on this particular clutch. I have not checked this yet. He also said that one of the buttons may have come loose and is dragging. I have heard no funny noises or smelled burnt clutch. The throw out bearing feels OK, but has some play. Is this normal?

I really do not want to split this tractor anytime soon, I am hopeful that it is a loose finger nut or dust/oil issue. If it is cut debris wrapped up in the clutch, I guess a split is the only cure. Can I hose it (presure plate area) down with brake cleaner? Will this harm anything? I cannot imagine the clutch failing with this little warning and still having adjustment left in the linkage.

I have ranted and raved enough, Here is the Farmall 504 owners manual procedure.








Thanks in advance,

CT

Anyone want to take a stab at this? I am dead in the water right now.

CT

I am not much of a maintenance or troublshooting
guy but I have two thoughts.

It sounds like pilot bearing trouble. Although I
have and use a 504, I have never had any clutch or
TA problems so I don't even what kind of access
you have for testing the pilot bearing even if
that can be done.

The other thought is the integral IPTO gear and
hollow shaft is putting a drag on the clutch
shaft, that runs inside of it, when the clutch is
disengaged. Not sure if there is access to clean
that annular space with air or high pressure
water.

Apart from those two suggestions, I think most
people would say you have pressure plate or clutch
disc problems. They may be right. Have you tried
Red Power forum?

Thanks for the reply Wardner. The pilot bearing has some play, but considering this is the first clutch I have workrd on alone I do not know what a good or bad one looks like. There is a 6"x10" or so access cover to grease (oops I did not know this) the pilot bearing (throw out?). I looked in last night and got discusted (raining).

I have it under the shed and I plan to go look at it after I write this (still raining). I will inspect the pressure plate fgingers and make sure they all move equally. It is a light drag, just enough that I cannot cleanly release the clutch. If starting in gear it tries to move but not like with the clutch engaged.

If the census is clutch/pressure plate/IPTO shaft failure/issues I have no choice to trailer it 60 miles to Dad's farm and split it. Sounds like fun .

Is there any chance it is the TA clutch? I do not know how the two work together except that they both actuate with the clutch pedal and only the TA moves with the TA lever.

Sorry for the novel I hae written here, but I want to give as namy facts as possible to help ya'll picture this.

Thanks in advance,

Charles Todd

The main clutch must be the issue because the only power to get to TA comes through it. If it is dragging because the puck arms are warped, or the center hub is coming apart making the pucks drag, the only solution is to split it. If there is lost motion in any linkage from wear, or bent roll pins, the clutch fingers will not be pushed in far enough to release fully.
There was a thread on this site several months ago that resolved to a Pressure Plate that had dramatic wear in the finger pivot points, and though it looked like it pushed the correct amount, it didn't. The finger pivots were allowing a half inch or so of useless travel.
The way to check this is to set the free play correctly, then feel if there is another pressure stage in pushing the pedal after the Throwout bearing contacts the fingers. There should not be. JimN

Yep, it is raining here too.

I may be wrong but I got the impression from your
last post that you may think the throw-out bearing
is the same as the pilot bearing.

The pilot bearing will be a ball bearing pressed
into the end of the crankshaft but more likely
into the flywheel. They can seize up and
eventually grab the splined clutch shaft through a
galling action. I had a Cub do that to me many
years ago. The main difference with the Cub is
that the pilot bearing was a bronze bushing. Your
bearing should have made some noise when
disengaging the clutch before it seized on the
shaft. This is not a diagnosis of what is
actually wrong with your 504.

A throwout bearing may have some wobble. The
bearing will still be good. It is just the
bearing carrier/yoke that is allowed to find its
center when pressed against the pressure plate
fingers. In other words, it floats a little.

I don't fully understand TA's as well even though
I have replaced one and, at the same time, changed
the output bearing, flange, shaft to the larger
size. I just set them according to the manual.

JaNicholson and Wardner, thanks again. I did not look at it any further today. Figured since it was raining I'd do some other projects. Cannot mow in the rain (at least I choose not to).

I was confused on the two bearings. I was looking at the throw out bearing. It did have some play, but otherwise felt ok. I can understand if the pilot bearing is in the flywheel it would grab the trans shaft. I doubt it is the IPTO shaft.

Though the pilot bearing is a possible, I am leaning torward JaNicholson's thoughts on the pressure plate warping or the 4 pad clutch comming apart. I have been using this tractor for loader work and mowing rough ground. What I am saying is I have been using the heck out of the clutch. A lot of mowing was in 1st gear TA. The TA works well.

I have some wear in the holes or bushings thru the bellhousing that the throw out shaft rides. I do not think it is an issue because I adjusted that slack out thru the linkages. I pulled the clutch pedal down and watched the throw out press the fingers and it did not impress me. Unless the pressure plate does not move that much. The book states that disengaged should be about 1/8" clearance between clutch and flywheel. If there was ANY RUNOUT, I can see how that would drag.

I spoke with Dad today. I plan to remove the loader and trailer it down to his place. We are going to split it. As much as I do not want to do this, I think it is probably neseccary. We have a surfaced flywheel on the shelf that we did not use 12-16 years ago. I'll tear it down and order the parts needed. I think the TA (7") clutch is ok because it never slipped in Direct.

I'll update with pics

Thanks again,

C

Good plan, Thanks, Jim