belly pump delayed lift revisited

i found my manual for the ih 438 mounted cultivator for the h and m. the rear cultivators use a delayed power lift cylinder which is a special attachment. here are some pics from the manual showing the cylinder and attachments. hope this clears up the secret rear port on the belly pump.
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Great info for the "cause".
My understanding has been that the pressure on lift was given to all ports at the same time equally, but that a delay (possibly pressure restricted valve in the hose) delayed the lift of the rear. Then on lowering, there were two detents in the rod when pushed toward lower. One dumped pressure from both front ports, and the farther (full forward on rod position) lowered the rear. There is certainly special levers in the Liftall internals for this. Thanks. JimN

LT. rear port has a separate ball check valve that pressure goes and returns through than the other 2. The delayed lift valve installed in the line between liftall and cylinder caused pressure in the system to raise to 425 to 475 LB. before left rear port recived pressure. Delay lift valve pressure was lower on old pumps. When it came to relieveing pressure the LT. rear port is last to get the ball check valve inside unit pushed open. If lever is moved forward all at once, they all release pressure at the same time. If LT. rear port is pluged and not in use you may not feel the difference when pushing control rod forward.
70 years ago it was good engineering and lots still working now.

Cool! Jim

glennster: Great "Factory" info. All those years back then and I never saw a manual. Few farmers followed detailed instructions in my area.
Would be nice to have a special archive here for factory info. ag

i kept a lot of the old manuals, and i keep my eyes open at auctions for old manuals. they come in pretty handy. that is a good idea for an archive of old manuals so you could go on line and look up stuff.

The delayed lift was a result of having 3" cylinders on the front units and 21/2" cylinder on the rear unit. Results, the front units raised first, the the rear because it took more pressure to raise the smaller cylinder. The drop was as described in other replys. Jim E.

Glennster, I find the delayed lift to be one of the neatest attachments on my H. Other than cultivators, I didn't know what to use it on. Until I used my crimper with the mower, last fall. I didn't like the fact that the crimper came up with the mower, leaving the last 6' of hay untouched. I thought of installing one of those 2 spool setups & went to the dealership to price one out. I was looking at the toys when I remembered the 221 cultivator, for the H, had a setup to delay the lift. I talked to the veteran shop guy about it & he said that method was used quite a bit. So, that's the way I set it up & it works great! Crimper stays in the hay to the very end. The pic I posted was taken after I figured out how to run the lower hose & so I don't forget how it goes back together. It feeds the ram for the loader. It's T'd into the line for the remote on the other side. The ball valve is there to lock out the loader. I also found the valve useful to let the loader down slowly. The top front hose is for the mower & the rear (delay) for the crimper. Good call on this post. More people should know about this cool yet forgotten accesory. I agree the older & obscure manuals should be reproduced on YT or somewhere for all to see. Might have problems pertaining to copyright laws, though. - Mike

Hi glennster: ...so who do we suggest adding an archive of very old manuals... or items like yours, here at YTMag. I'd guess it should be someone who is good with words when selling an idea... ag ret.

Scanned some pages from the Lift-All manual, will give a better idea just whats going on inside the Lift-All during operaton.

Good info guys. I was curious how the liftall really worked. John Deere had nothing on IH's hydraulics during that era.

CT