Allan or others. HELP PLEASE

656/farmall/dual remote hydraulics from factory

I tried to attach the drawing and parts sketch from CNH but I could not get it to download on here. If you go to CNH parts and service and type in 656, then farmall, then hydraulics, then picture # 64 will show you what I’m asking. I HOPE??
I’m trying to find a pressure and return line for a separate remote for my loader. Can I use the # 15 holes for this?? I really don't know why they are here if you could not use them for something. My left factory female couplers are screwed into the #14 block attached to the right side of #18. But block #18 with the #15 holes are being used for anything. I'm going to need pressure and return lines and was hoping this would give it to me without cutting into the main pressure line from the pump.

Thanks in Advance

Jerry

Yes you can use the ports to feed a separate loader valve but you will have to tie the tractor remote valve in either extend or retract position to get flow to the loader valve. In addition unless you make the connection with quick couplers you will lose the use of that remote for anything else.

If you are already using both remotes for the loader, You have two other choices.
1. a power beyond block used to be available from CIH $$$$$. Don't know if still available. maybe aftermarket.
2. a Fasse valve which allows one remote to be split into two outlets. Electrically switched. cannot use both at the same time.
HTH

Don't cut into the pressure lines from the pump. This is an open center system and as such it can only have one path for the oil to go from the pump to the sump.

If you tee off from the pump lines, you will need a cockamaime arrangement of ball valves to make anything work at all. You won't be able to use the loader and the remotes at the same time like you want.

The oil has to come off the pressure side of the pump and go through all the valves, one after the other. That's what a power beyond plate does. It puts your loader valve "in line" with all the other valves in the system.

Cut into the lines, and the oil has two paths. It will always take the path of least resistance. Use a loader valve, and the oil will flow through the remote valves. Use a remote valve, and the oil will flow through the loader valve. It won't be pretty.

charles todd did an excellent job adding extra remotes to his 504. It is similar to a 656.
find his posts or contact him.

My opiniotn: on a 656 you would start with the hose from under the steering column that goes from the diverter valve to the remotes and plumb a power beyond valve in between. You may wish to use a new hose assembly. The inlet to your new valve stack would come from that hose and the outlet would go to your factory remote bank. the small power beyond return line could be plumbed to the drain plug at the front of the transmission. if you decide to beef up your hydraulic flow, especially with a 17gpm pump you may wish to upgrade your flow divider valve and plumbing, using larger components, coming directly from the hydraulic pump since going under the dash limits the size of your tubing. we can hash out those details later. My recommendation is to always give the steering priority in the circuit as designed originally(it's only 3 gpm).
karl f

Although not what I was hoping for, THANKS to all.
Jerry

I do not have PhotoBucket open right now to post the pics, but the archives may have them??? I can post if you would like. I upgraded to the 17 gpm pump, I do not have to tie any valves back to make things work. This is counter-productive, still loosing one remote to run two more.

I installed a 3-spool, power-beyond valve for my loader and still have the two factory remotes. I just looped in between the pump and flow divider, no cut-n-splice. The only negative is if I am operating a loader valve it is hard to steer. But how often are you ACTUALLY steering while pulling a loader lever? I just time my actions and have zero issues with the loader having priority over steering. Actually it speeds up the loader by 3 gpm. I am dumping the relief return through a ORB fitting that I replaced the filler plug at the IPTO with. All supply and return hoses are 3/4" and all work hoses are 1/2".

I have a total of five remotes. The 3-spool I have set at 2200 psi and the 2 factory remotes utilize the OEM 1600 psi. You may say that is only 600 psi... Multiply that times the surface areas of your two loader cylinders and it will surprise you how much force is there. If you use the remotes, piggy back with a multiplier, or "tie one back" to feed another valve bank, you are stuck with the OEM factory relief. You can change is to a higher PSI, but price one... About $280. That buys a nice valve bank.

If you want pics of the plumbing, I'll post them.

KARL: Still wanting the remote valve. I'll make a GOOD offer since I did not get back with you. I may even include enough o-rings to rebuild it! Email me if interested.

CT

Thanks Charles. I'm still checking it all out and reviewing my options(which I'm finding aren't that many)If my 851 baler did not need to four remotes to bale and hyd tie, I would not have a problem. But the loader leaks down while bouching on the unlevel group in field and you need to bring it back up from time to time. I can tie the bucket up with chains but there is no way to tie the lift arms on the loader up to the tractor. I remember years ago, I used something like collar rings to stop a 470 disc from dropping to low, but can't remember what they were and if they would work or not here.

Thanks again to you and all here who seem to know so much about the workings of these old tractors

Jerry

You are thinking of "stop collars" for controlling the stroke of a cylinder. These would work, but you would need quite a few and it would get a little expensive. I have heard of people taking a piece of sch 80 pipe, splitting it, welding nuts to one side, and using the two halves bolted together as a long cylinder stop...

Easiest thing to do would be to repack your cylinders. That is the cold, hard truth. I had my loader run to the rear remotes at one time and could unplug the couplers and bale ALL DAY without hooking them back up to raise the loader.

CT

I can see how that would work if the steel did not scare the end of the cylinder dust cap. Thanks again for your input and I'm as of now checking with TSC for those collars. Would anyone on the board have some they would want to part for a reasonable price. My cylinders are 1 3/4 in in dia and I would need approx 12" on each side.

Thanks Charles

Jerry