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YT parts.... am I being unreasonable?

S

sgtbull

Member
About 3 years ago I completely restored a "40 H. In the process, I put on new brake bands from YT. On the bands was a sticker touting the technologically advanced adhesive which negated the need for rivets.
This H is a parade/show tractor. It hasn"t had many miles at all put on it, and hasn"t done any heavy tillage or other work. I noticed the other day, as I was unloading it from a parade, that the right brake pedal suddenly went way further than it should, and the pedal began to "SURGE." I disassembled the brake to find that the band and the lining were separated, allowing the lining to spin around with the drum.
This tractor is kept inside. Its NOT been abused or even really worked. I called YT, and was told, there is a year warranty. Period.
I"ve purchased literally THOUSANDS of dollars worth of parts from them over the years, in restoring numerous tractors for myself and others.
I really thought they"d step up and take care of it, even though its been a few yrs, but I found I was out of luck.
I fully understand that they are under no obligation to take care of it, but for pete"s sake, the stupid thing failed with very little use and I"ve been what I"d consider a pretty good customer. Even a discount on a new brake band would be a good faith attempt enough to keep my business, but even that was not proposed.
I"m mad, and I have three tractors sitting in my shed waiting their turns for ground up restoration. I really hate to take my business elsewhere, but I"m bullheaded enough to do just that.
Okay, let me have it... am I WAY off base, mildly off base, kinda right, or right on track for being mad at shoddy products?
 
Hey Bull,

I would say midly off-base. While I understand your frustration at the failure over so little use, it has been 3 years. Unless it was a local company who you were friends with the owner... I wouldn't expect otherwise.
 
For the time period they figure they are out of it. They dont really know how much you use your tractor I hate it for you but sometime you have to take what you get. If everyone tryed to get new parts after 3 years they would be out of business. Just how the ball bounces. I would be mad myself thats the game with these old girls. James
 
Would not think twice about it go else where. Alot of good guys out there selling parts that would love your money and treat you right.
 
I don't think your off base at all. Thats the awesome thing about capitalism. And the great thing about this site is, I can decide if I want to take a chance on buying parts from them after hearing there responce to you.
 
I gotta admit ,I`d be a little peeved about it too.There`s a fair amount of poorly made replacement parts out there and I think you found one of them.Were they way cheaper price than the riveted brake linings ?If they were, then that old saying " You get what you pay for" comes into the equation.Otherwise- heck yeah, I`d be ticked.
 
I don't know if you are off-base or not, Bull. What I do know is, thanks to you, I won't be buying any brake bands off the YT forum. I believe in Capitalism - but [i:6a11036b08]totally[/i:6a11036b08] unregulated, it is not always a pretty sight.....
mike
 
(quoted from post at 16:53:16 07/06/09) Hey Bull,

I would say midly off-base. While I understand your frustration at the failure over so little use, it has been 3 years. Unless it was a local company who you were friends with the owner... I wouldn't expect otherwise.
Click to expand...
..... which explains a lot about why California is the way it is today.
mike
 
Did you ask them if you could return it so they can use their miracle glue on it again? Or perhaps take the lining and band in somewhere else and have it rivited on there?

Gordo
 
Stuff like that tends to stick im my mind when I look to spend money on parts. It also goes with buying parts from individuals. I just bought a newer car and I had had it over a week and took it on the interstate and the tires vibrated a little. I called the dealer and asked and they said bring it in when you can. There was no warrenty on it and they didnt need to fix it but they did and now will get my recomondation as they treated me fair. I am going to be needing some brake bands comeing up and will only buy rivited ones now after reading this.
 
California is messed up because of an uneducated populace that
keeps electing idiots to office. The legislature is fueled by incompetence because of term limits. We are forced to live with
abundant brainwashing that occurs in our public schools resulting in
more of the same! My humble opinion.
IMG_1533.jpg
 
I find that in general there is a problem with old tractor restorations and warrantees. I usually take my time doing a restoration, so it can take me several years before I actually get my tractor started after purchase in installing all the parts. I recently had several problems after I got my 350 diesel started. I bought the parts or in this case had the injector pump rebuilt two years ago. Fortunately, when the pump leaked diesel fuel into the crankcase the dealer fixed the pump at not charge, but it could have been an issue. I also have a hydraulic line that leaks that I bought at a salvage yard more than a year ago. I doubt if I will be able to get my money back on that. I guess it just goes with this hobby. Roger
 
I am a dealer of HY-Capacity and two years ago I put in a set of (rivited) brake bands in my H restoration. They did not conform to the circumference of the drum and could not be bent into shape or linings pulled away from bands, after having them on for over a year I found a good one out in the barn and another at a salvage yard, put them in and brakes adjusted very nicely with no drag. Gave the other bands back to HY-Capacity distributor and told him to give them to the co and just tell them they are no darn good. I didn't ask for any return of my money but I never heard a word from them. I found a nice set of bands for my M about a month ago at a salvage yard. Lucked out on them. A lot of these new parts are not up to snuff. Don't look like the parts of years ago.
 
I think you are being quite reasonable. No, they don't have some legal obligation to replace them but decency and good business sense with regard to a long term, repeat customer dictates they do so to my way of thinking.

I appreciate you sharing such an experience and will keep in it mind with regard to parts sources for my next restoration.
 
Hey Bull,

I would say midly off-base. While I understand your frustration at the failure over so little use, it has been 3 years. Unless it was a local company who you were friends with the owner... I wouldn't expect otherwise.
Click to expand...
..... which explains a lot about why California is the way it is today.
mike
Click to expand...
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense Mike. Blame the Navy guy that moved to California 3 years ago on the complete meltdown of the budget. Why, because I wouldn't expect a company to replace a part I bought 3 years ago? That's comparing apples to porcupines, and is devoid of any reasonable logic.

Regardless, Califorinia's budget is completely irrelevant to Bull's topic.
 
Bull: Your being a major purchaser, yes I agree with you. If they are smart, they will be looking after you. Nothing more valuable than regular customers.
 
I'd email them to jog their memory with #'s from a few of your order's spanning the length of time you've been doing business with them, suggest a couple of places that sell the same stuff, and ask them again for a replacement. Letem get away with it and quality/service will keep sinking.

Dave
 
Post this over in the buyer/seller feedback! I feel they should have done a little something maybe, but I understand their side of it too!
 
I dont blame you at all. There sure seems to be some trouble with those people as sending wrong parts and then restocking fees and so forth. I like to buy parts from a person that i meet face to face then if theres a problem it can always get worked out. You could rivet them back on not that hard to do. Their prices are xometimes crazy course iv only been at fixing B Farmalls for50 pluss yrs.
 
Does it really matter how many hours of use you got out of it? A one year warranty is one year. Not three. You could have just as easily worked the tractor for 10 hours per day and this still may have happened after 3 years. If you bought a new car with a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty and only put 1,000 miles on it in 5 years. Are you going to take it back to the dealer and ask for warranty work because all that you did was haul your car to car shows? I doubt it. I agree that the craftsmanship wasn't there in the manufacturing of the bands. The question hasn't been answered: How did the price compare to that of the riveted bands? As Mark Peters said. You get what you paid for.
 
If you want to be treated like you have a personal relationship with a business, then don't shop on the Internet.

You didn't get preferential treatment because you're file on a computer. The person you talked to was a phone operator, not the business owner. This person doesn't know you from Adam. They have no idea how much business you do with the company. They have no authority to "bend the rules" for you. The owner, the person who might help you, is nowhere to be found.

You're doing business with a computer and a girl from the temp agency in town who's just there to answer the phones and make it seem like there's a real business behind it all. In reality, the entire "store" could be contained in a coat closet, and probably is.

As far as getting "better" parts elsewhere, forget about it. YT doesn't make parts. There's one place making replacement brake bands for your H in the entire world. Whether you get them from here, the local CaseIH dealer, or any of the thousands of retired farmers trying to bring in a few extra dollars by being an A&I dealer, they all come from the same place.
 
I fully understand the concept of warranty limitations, and honestly wouldn"t expect anything under NORMAL circumstances. My point is more that a new product like a brake band shouldn"t have a "shelf life." I bet a NOS band made in 1940 would have worked perfectly and lasted the rest of my life. Its steel and something akin to, but hopefully not, asbestos and shouldn"t simply fail from the passage of 3 years.
As far as the difference in price and the concept of "you get what you pay for", yes, I did weigh that out. I"m like anyone else, I prefer NOT to pay more for something that will do the same job as a more expensive item. Remember, this is a PARADE tractor. If I were working this tractor, yes, I may have ponied up the extra cash for the riveted bands, but virtually all your brake shoes use an adhesive instead of rivets these days. The technology works if done properly, and for a tractor that sits 95% of the time, it made more sense to save $30 and buy bonded brakes. Simply put, the band should have lasted 20 yrs or more with the level of use they were getting.
The bigger picture in my mind is that I consider myself a good customer, and it was a bad product. I know if I were trying to stay afloat in today"s economy, I"d recognize that customer service may be the difference between repeat business and NO business and perhaps a warranty exception might be in order. After all, the whole idea behind a warranty is to promote customer confidence for initial and REPEAT business. I have no problem sending them the old band for their perusal in that event.
 
(quoted from post at 05:20:01 07/07/09) If you want to be treated like you have a personal relationship with a business, then don't shop on the Internet.

You didn't get preferential treatment because you're file on a computer. The person you talked to was a phone operator, not the business owner. This person doesn't know you from Adam. They have no idea how much business you do with the company. They have no authority to "bend the rules" for you. The owner, the person who might help you, is nowhere to be found.

You're doing business with a computer and a girl from the temp agency in town who's just there to answer the phones and make it seem like there's a real business behind it all. In reality, the entire "store" could be contained in a coat closet, and probably is.

As far as getting "better" parts elsewhere, forget about it. YT doesn't make parts. There's one place making replacement brake bands for your H in the entire world. Whether you get them from here, the local CaseIH dealer, or any of the thousands of retired farmers trying to bring in a few extra dollars by being an A&I dealer, they all come from the same place.
Click to expand...

Actually, that is NOT true. The brake bands I get from A&I seem to be a much higher quality band than what I can get from another supplier. The color and composition of the lining is even different.
 
I dont think You are out of line.The first originals lasted 40-50 years with good use.Everything you buy anymore is cheap made crap at high prices
 
Here's my take, coming from both sides of the counter:

Pappy and Grand-dad ran a Farmall shop from 1941 until Pappy died in 1991. When Grand-dad passed away in 1978, Pappy entertained the idea of taking on a TISCO dealership, so he could compete price-wise on parts with the local TEMCO dealer...who was killing them on sales of cheap sleeve-and-piston sets, among other things. In 1960 or '61 Pappy had added M & W for their sleeves and pistons, and was more than satisfied with the quality of their products.

From the parts counter side of things, Pap knew his customers. If the customer was a chronic abuser of tractors and parts, he'd generally stand fast and not budge on warranty questions. If the customer was known to Pap as a quality workman who took care of his equipment, Pap would go to bat for the customer, and if the manufacturer wouldn't bend,Pap would often replace a part out of his own pocket tokeep a good customer happy. But if Pap only saw a customer once or twice in 5 years, his level of concern would reflect this.

As a customer, I see things from your side. Parts should last longer than the amount of use you got out of the brake lining. But if YT won't make it good, all you can do is chalk it up to experience and then decide whether to take your business elsewhere or not. Only you can decide that. You have to do what makes you happy.

In my world, I don't compromise on brake parts. Just bought some front pads and rotors for one car, and I made sure I got Raybestos, because I trust the brand. While I know you don't have that option on your tractor, please realize that, especially in a parade setting, a failed brake lining could spell disaster for bystanders as well as the operator. So I'd go for the best I could get, and if I could get a discount price it would be nice, but not mandatory. Sometimes peace of mind is worth more than getting the best price. Again, that's your call...but if I'm a bystander at the parade, I'm wishing and hoping that you didn't buy the cheapest brake lining, because MY life may depend on YOUR decision.
 
No, I wouldn’t say you’re off base.

Yes, your warranty had expired, but a far-sighted business takes care of its customers because they realize it’s much cheaper to keep an existing customer than to try to find a new one. (Hopefully, you did point out to them that you’ve been a big-time repeat customer.) That’s provided, of course, that the customer isn’t abusing the warranty policy – but it doesn’t sound like you are.

Many businesses these days seem to think the warranty’s purpose is to protect them rather than the customer. They see it as the MOST they’re willing to do in order to satisfy a customer, and they hide behind it. Instead, it should be seen as the LEAST they are REQUIRED to do; a starting point – not the ending point – for good customer relations.

It’s more than likely that the loss of your future business, plus the bad publicity generated by your post, will cost the vendor a lot more money than it would have cost to accommodate you just this once.

Mark W. in MI
 
I can feel for you, but 3 years is a long time... some things wear out from age and some from miles or use.
Have an '05 Lincoln LS with 35K on it, but it was LESS THAN 3 WEEKS out of the 4 yr./50K warranty when the valve that controls the heater went out (coil open... $600). I thought surely they would still stand behind it due to the low miles and as close as it was on time..... WRONG!!! We were on vacation at the time (end of May this year) and the dealers I worked with were great, but I didn't pursue the warranty coverage until I got home and talked to my local dealer... he tried, but the factory guy would not cover it. The local guy said a year ago they probably would have taken care of it without question, but with the car companies in the shape they are in now, he said when the factory guy comes to town, he isn't even allowed to buy him lunch. I emailed the factory customer service, but they said because the determination had already been made by the regional guy, it could not be overturned... my question of course was what good is the facttory customer service then? Have driven Ford products, Ford, Merc, Lincoln and Ford pickups, almost exclusively from 1962 (one Oldsmobile) with very few problems, however, next car will probably be a Korean made Hyundai (no Japanese or GM cars).
 
Howdy,
I sold car parts for 35 years, the warranty can be whatever the person you are dealing with wants it to be. If they want to keep your business (and mine) they can make a warranty adjustment. Even a fool can look at a brake shoe--band---pad and tell if it has a lot of wear or if someone was riding the brake. Try again ----send them a nice letter telling them if they want to keep your business to make an adjustment.
A bonded brake lining should not fall off under ANY conditions. Good luck
Bob S.
 
Whatever. I always considered the terms I agreed to when I clicked on "buy now" to be as binding as any other agreement, be it a gentleman's handshake or legal paperwork.

Expecting companies to bend the rules just for you on threat of defamation by Internet is what puts them out of business.
 
I"m not threateneing any sort of public tribunalon the internet... just stating what happened, my opinion, and asking if I"m off base. Seems to be about 60/40 or so that I"m not off base, but again, its not a tribunal, just a discussion. I see the point of the gentleman regarding his concern about my taking a less expensive approach to brakes when its used for a parade, but I consider the following:
1. I"m painfully aware of keeping a good following distance and of being vigilant.
2. Its a parade... the fastest I"m travelling is the speed of the slowest marching band. The tractor rolls to a stop in less than 20" if I step on the clutch and use NO brake.
3. I"ve never had a bonded brake separate before and had no reason to expect this one to. Even the brakes on my SQUAD car are bonded... not riveted. I don"t feel I was compromising anyone"s safety by buying bonded brakes, although now, after this experience, I may reconsider it. Being unable to stop is less of a concern than having a wheel "lock up" because of a brake band spinning around the drum and wedging.
 

Just my opinion, but that lining should not have come loose from the band until the lining was worn completely out, no matter how many years it took or what kind of use the tractor received.
 
In my opinion they would be customer relations and sales ahead in all cases like this, to take the band back, and give you a new one. The real issue is their supplier. They should put in in the next shipment back to them with a replace request. If that company is now toast, that may be the reason. From their point of view it is trivial. from yours it is serious. From theirs it is to maintain a reputation, from yours it is to get stopped reliably.
From ours YT readers) it is to take lessons!!!
JimN
 
If you're looking for a company that honors its warranties, I can't recommend Hyundai (personal experience, long story). You may want to consider Nissan instead.

Mark W. in MI
 
(quoted from post at 08:23:11 07/08/09) If you're looking for a company that honors its warranties, I can't recommend Hyundai (personal experience, long story). You may want to consider Nissan instead.

Mark W. in MI
Click to expand...
Had an uncle on the California (BB-44) at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked (he survived the attack) but, just something I decided years ago to never buy.
 
(quoted from post at 06:23:11 07/08/09) If you're looking for a company that honors its warranties, I can't recommend Hyundai (personal experience, long story). You may want to consider Nissan instead.
Click to expand...

YT DID honor their warranty. The warranty is ONE year. OP wanted them to replace the brake band after THREE years.

OP is way off base, especially if he fancies himself a "good American."
 
Sorry, it looks like we left you behind. We had moved on to discussing automobile warranties at this point (Ford, Hyundai, etc.), not YT's warranty.

I agreee that YT did not violate their warranty. However, I feel they're being very short-term oriented (i.e., penny-wise and pound-foolish) in this case. Of course, they're free to run their business however they want to, for as long as it lasts.

Mark W. in MI
 
I apologize... didn't mean to hijack the thread... just trying to illustrate a point on how warranties can be unfair at times.
Guess you are supposed to use your equipment more so it's used up at the same time the warranty expires.
 
(quoted from post at 14:32:43 07/07/09)
Just my opinion, but that lining should not have come loose from the band until the lining was worn completely out, no matter how many years it took or what kind of use the tractor received.
Click to expand...
That is an excellent point, Rusty - a clear and good way of looking at this situation.
mike
 
(quoted from post at 00:36:42 07/07/09)
Hey Bull,

I would say midly off-base. While I understand your frustration at the failure over so little use, it has been 3 years. Unless it was a local company who you were friends with the owner... I wouldn't expect otherwise.
Click to expand...
..... which explains a lot about why California is the way it is today.
mike
Click to expand...
Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense Mike. Blame the Navy guy that moved to California 3 years ago on the complete meltdown of the budget. Why, because I wouldn't expect a company to replace a part I bought 3 years ago? That's comparing apples to porcupines, and is devoid of any reasonable logic.

Regardless, Califorinia's budget is completely irrelevant to Bull's topic.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if you feel blamed, Mike. It wasn't meant to be personal. I was referring to the attitude of the company as depicted/described in your comments. Didn't even think about the CA budget - but now that you mention it..... good analogy!
mike
 
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