THF Revealation: Eating Some Crow... Gag, Choke

A few years ago, I was involved here in a debate about THF (Trans Hydraulic Fluids). Cheapskate that I am, I was looking for a less expensive alternative to HyTran Ultra, which was overpriced (I thought) in my area. I ended up going with the Tractor Supply Traveler brand. I used it for a bit over three years and 180 hours with no trouble. This spring, I had a bunch of trans and hydraulic leaks to fix and had to drain the THF again and went back to Tractor Supply for the 20 gallons of refill.

I ended up taking a virgin sample of the oil as I installed it and sent it off for analysis... merely out of curiosity. Lo and behold, I discover an oil with next to nothing in it. Very weak additive package compared to other THF products on the market. Usable in a short interval, perhaps, but not a top quality product.

I contacted a Tribologist (a lubricant engineer) I know, and he sent me an appropriate amount of a prepackaged THF additive package from a major oil company, which custom oil blenders can use to make THF. This turned the weak TSC oil into something worthwhile. I had this new oil tested and it is now very strong. Of course, going this route cost me a lot more than just buying the right stuff in the first place. Not to mention the eternal shame of having to admit this now!

I also have sent off a sample of new HyTran Ultra to see what it's made of and compare it to the mix. If the actual numbers of all this are of interest, I will post them once I have all of them. You will need some knowledge of lubricants to interpret them.

So, bottom line, I recommend against using the TSC THF unless you plan on cutting the service interval at least in half. As I said, my 826 suffered no apparent ill effects in 180 hours of use, but there is a fine line between trying to save money and being a little too cheap for your own good.

yup, yup, yup - the boat gets only Quicksilver MerCruiser lubricants, the cars get their oil changed by the dealer while in warranty (cost is the same as an oil change place - just don't buy any of the other not needed services) then they have the record of it if any warranty issues arise, IH stuff at farm gets IH lubricants, for out of warranty stuff I use Pennzoil or Valvoline.

Thanks for your post, and please send more info when you get it!

(quoted from post at 20:02:53 06/24/09) yup, yup, yup - the boat gets only Quicksilver MerCruiser lubricants, the cars get their oil changed by the dealer while in warranty (cost is the same as an oil change place - just don't buy any of the other not needed services) then they have the record of it if any warranty issues arise, IH stuff at farm gets IH lubricants, for out of warranty stuff I use Pennzoil or Valvoline.

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Don't get too carried away with this. Just because it's "OE" doesn't mean it's good, or the best, and there are numerous examples of that if you want to dig. I'd be willing to bet there are some aftermarket THF products that are better than HyTran too, but I proved to myself (yet again, unfortunately) that you get what you pay for. Cheap oil generally has a low-rent additive package.

I have seen analysis of a couple of well known aftermarket THF products and in comparison the TSC was by far the weakest of the lot. We'll debate more after the virgin HyTran sample comes back and I post it. The JD product, for example, is a very strong package. I expect the HyTran to test out well too. No more "Travellin'" for me!

Jim, Could you e-mail the results tpo me when you get them in case I miss your post?

Thanks

A lot of sources for hydraulic oil have 2 grades of oil. One is usually labeled "hydraulic oil" with very few if any other claims. The second one is usually more expensive and labeled as compatible with HY-Tran and other higher grade oils. I believe that TSC usually has 2 grades like this. Do you know which of the 2 oils you tested?

(quoted from post at 21:36:14 06/24/09) A lot of sources for hydraulic oil have 2 grades of oil. One is usually labeled "hydraulic oil" with very few if any other claims. The second one is usually more expensive and labeled as compatible with HY-Tran and other higher grade oils. I believe that TSC usually has 2 grades like this. Do you know which of the 2 oils you tested?

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I know the difference and it was the THF, not the straight hydraulic. It is indeed listed on the pail as compatible with HyTran, but is not certified in any way by Case-IH. Claiming "compatibility" or "suitability" for OE spec is common in the oil biz, but it may or may not be true in reality. Issue like these crop up most often in the retail store branded oil, (WalMart, K-Mart, Meijer, etc) than they do with oil company branded products. They are usually blended by companies that specialize in such things. They can make great product or price point stuff with the bare minimum of "stuff," It all depends on the contract.

Todd---don't assume that the dealer is doing the oil changes unless you get to watch. My father-in-law bought a new Olds 88 in 1987. He got the dealer to throw in free oil & filter & lube for a year. He died 4 years later & the mother-in-law kept taking the car in for regular servicing. When she moved to our town, I said I'd do the servicing for her. First time I changed the oil & filter, I saw engine overspray paint on the oil filter. It was so tight I had to drive a punch through it to get it loose. Drain plug was just as tight & when I got it out, the oil would barely run out. Blacker than I've ever seen.
Upshot was that the oil & filter had never been changed in 30,000 miles.
This was a big dealership even. Needless to say, I told everyone I knew about the goings-on.

Good post Jim. Now, here is the next step. There is a % of water that Hy-Tran can sustain without separation. This allows the longer oil changes. I would like to see what the bargain oil can sustain vs. Hy-Tran. Some dealers had these test displays last year.

Honestly I run No.1 IH oil in my Dodge 3/4 ton. I could tell a difference from Rotella. You know, Truck oil is for trucks and Tractor oil is for Tractors.

There is one thing for sure, for it to be cheaper, they have to cut some corners somewhere.

What about the 80-90 wt gear oil from tsc (traveler also) Is that just as bad. What about Rotella 15-40, is that any good for engine oil.

(quoted from post at 15:19:26 06/24/09) Todd---don't assume that the dealer is doing the oil changes unless you get to watch.

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I have suspected that my oil hadn't been changed a few times. I try to remember to put some kind of mark on the filter before I go in now. At least I can tell if the filter gets changed.

I repeatedly have trouble getting them to do the chassis lube. A lot of the newer cars don't have any grease fittings. I figure if the manufactuer did put them in, they should get a shot of grease once in a while. On vehicles that have fittings I always remind them when I go in. It is obvious when they come out if the fittings haven't been touched. I pull it right back in.

I have had the same problem at quick change oil places and the Chevrolet dealer. I even make the Chevrolet service writer put it on the work order, still doesn't happen.

Just for the record, whenever and whoever (me or someone else) changes the oil in one of my engines the stick, plug, and filter get checked again no later than the next day by yours truly. I also keep my garage floor clean to monitor for any oil leaks in the cars. We had a dealer try to cheat my wife on a "service package" a couple of years ago - we have not been back for service or purchase and will not be back unless the ownership there changes. Yes, there are a lot of dishonest people in the world and one has to be very careful when paying for any kind of work.

(quoted from post at 02:39:46 06/25/09) What about the 80-90 wt gear oil from tsc (traveler also) Is that just as bad. What about Rotella 15-40, is that any good for engine oil.

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As to the TSC gear oil,well, there's your crusade, my friend! Send a virgin same off to Blackstone Labs for analysis and tell us.

I use Rotella-T, both the 15W40 and 10W30. I have years of oil analysis indicating they work very well in my equipment (tractors and diesel trucks) and are a quality product. I can rest easy there.

(quoted from post at 04:08:35 06/25/09) We had a dealer try to cheat my wife on a "service package" a couple of years ago - we have not been back for service or purchase and will not be back unless the ownership there changes.

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Dishonesty can be a problem. In car repair, it seems you have to watch constantly for it. But I try not to blame that for problems caused by simple incompetence. If I never went back to any place that couldn't get a lube job right, I would have run through nearly every shop in a 50 mile radius by now.

One time I took my Cavalier in to a quick change place and specifically said to lube all the grease fittings (there are only 4, lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends). It came out with them untouched. I immediately went back in for them to finish it. Pretty soon, the guy in the pit says there aren't any fittings. I offered to go down and point them out, which they allowed. He was amazed, never knew they were there. There are so many Cavaliers around that I can't imagine them going through a single day without having at least one come in. The guy really DIDN'T know where to grease it.

Yeah - in this particular case it was a dishonest service writer. He quoted the $99.95 deal and the car did need oil change, tire rotate, and windshield wipers at a minimum, and probably some other things, so that price was O.K. But instead, they performed the $199.95 service "by mistake" and wanted to charge her for it. She is a public school elementary principal, so not too much gets by her and she only paid the $99.95. And, we have not been back!:^)