McCormick-Deering 10-20 done! (2527)still can't crank start

Hi Guys,

I have the 1925 back home with bodywork done and the motor has had rings put in and gone through. It didn't have too much work since it was a free motor.

Ok, lets start with the 1927 on rubber that I have posted here before. I thought I found the right starting combination but I'm still having issues. I reduced the amount of priming fluid and got it to fire and run for about 3 seconds. I didn't have the fuel line attached so that is all I got. I fired and started (again 3 seconds) on a shot of starting fluid and with a small amount of priming gas. I have also got it to fire with 3 plugs as I was trying to confirm TDC on number 1 and the thing fired right up. Again it died since I didn't have the fuel hooked up. When I hook up the fuel and give it a go, I get nothing. This motor we can run if we pull start it. We have got it to crank start twice during our pull start session. The motor has had the crank turned, new pistons, rings, sleeves and is very tight. Professional rebuilt mag and carb. The motor has run for about 2 hours total.

On the 1925 on steel. Motor has been 'checked' and new rings installed. I timed this one myself. I can confirm that I have spark in the correct firing order with the piston just a hair past TDC. I can't tell if I'm on the compression stroke but it appears that the valves are closed but I can't feel compression with my small thumb. Same setup, I don't have the fuel lines hooked up yet and tried to prime and at least get a fire. My first try I got a fire but I had the valve cover off and forgot to put the priming tubes back in so it just when poof. I've tried to prime with starting fluid and gas but neither have produced a fire. This motor is quite loose and easy to turn.

I plan to take these to a big Iowa tractor show and to the family farm in September. I hope to have all of the bugs worked out soon so I can get some miles on these and feel confident to fire it up. I hope to park them in the original spot and get new photos, show them off for my 95 year old grandmother and my three uncles, aunt and mother who used this tractor on the farm. I just need to fix a few oil leaks and fancy up the fuel lines and it is ready to use. I am having steel bands with rubber put around an extra set of steel so I can parade the steel wheel tractor.

Thanks for all of the help guys, I wish I was close to some of you for a little hands on session. These tractors came out fantastic so I hope to display them around a lot once I get them running good.

Dave

a few more pics

Here are the tractors as I found them.

Neat.

If I were to hazard a guess, the fact that they won't run with the fuel hooked up is telling me that they're getting too much fuel. Your air/fuel mixture has to be just right with a good hot spark due to the limited RPMs you can muster with the "armstrong" starter.

Can you get from the crank to the fuel valve in the 3 seconds? If so, try starting on prime with the fuel off, and then open the fuel valve after the engine starts.

Sure looks new. Is the impulse coupling snapping when hand craking? Both valves on No1 cylinder should be closed if you're on the compression stroke. Hal

UNBELIEVABLE!! You sure did a super nice job. That is one of the nicest restorations I have seen on this forum, just beautiful. very nice. My hat is off to you for that amazing job, most people would have probably scrapped them. My 10-20's are in their work clothes yet, someday I will restore them. Have a good day

Very nice job! BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Hoss

Hal,

Yes, I have the impulse catching the pawl and snapping thus delivering the spark when the piston is up. The values seem to be closed however, I can't figure out which values are intake or exhaust. Can you tell me which ones are which?

I can pull the plugs and spin the motor and get fire at TDC of each cylinder. I believe I am getting a nice blue spark each hit. I've tried a little fuel, a lot of fuel and never seem to get much.

Weird thing has been I have loaded up with fuel, couldn't get it to start, then 5 days later go out and just give it one pull and off it runs for a few seconds. Again, I always have the fuel line pulled so it doesn't drip gas out of the carb. I also once just hooked up the fuel line, set the choke and pulled on it without priming. I got one good fire after about 10 pulls but it didn't take off and I didn't get anything else after 10 more pulls. After that I was tired and gave up for the day.

Hal,

I seems that I only get to work on the tractor in short spurts. This morning I loaded the steel wheel with fuel and tried to start it. Nothing. I have been gone for 5 hours and just ran out to try turning it over. After about 7 pulls I get a loud bang out of the exhaust without any kickback. I pull another 7 times and get a second normal compression fire. I pull 6 more times and get another small compression fire. All of this without fuel to it. Air/fuel mixture seems to be the issue. Tomorrow I will go get fuel lines and fill the tank and try. I'm having a difficult time figuring out the right air fuel combo. I think I have the timing down.

I would love to try and pull start the steel wheel but I don't have a place to pull it that it won't destroy the yard or my asphalt road. I may have to take the rubber tires off of the first tractor and move them to the steel and beg my wife to pull me with the Kubota!

any more thoughts?

Counting from either end, valves #1,4,5 and 8 are exhaust. 2,3,6 and 7 are intake. Follow the piping of your manifold.

Doesn't it have a shutoff valve at the gas tank?
We had a 1926 and it had one as we always shut it off when we stopped the engine. If it only has 8 valves it would be the 2 near the radiator that should be closed when No1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. Hal

Dave,your timing is probally off some,My F 12s does the same thing.Play around with your mag advance and see if it will try to start a little better in different positions.Do you have the timing mark marked,and is the coupling snaping when the mark is in the center of the sight hole

jimmy 304-582-9995

If you have a flat belt and can get the 10-20 on rubber to start use the pulley on it to drive the pulley on the tractor on steel. Make sure you're turning the engine on steel CW when viewed from the front. You probably will need a helper and the lever on the tractor that engages the pulley on the steel wheel tractor needs to be engaged before turning the engine and have the driver on this tractor to have the clutch depressed until you're ready to try for a start. Make sure both tractors are out of gear when trying this. I use my garden tractor to start an old Toro mower with a rope start. Be sure the gas is turned on the steel wheel tractor. Hal

I thought I could from the piping but a confirmation is great. Thanks.

The motor man who set the timing on the rubber tire set it so the mag snapped just past TDC as to never have a kick. I set the steel the same way.

You mentioned gas was dripping from the carb. There's your problem. It's flooding. Probably the float is set to allow the fuel level to be too high.

The motor man who set the timing on the rubber tire set it so the mag snapped just past TDC as to never have a kick. I set the steel the same way.

I found an old belt in the barn when I got the tractors. I will have to go down to the ranch and pick it up to see if it is long enough to reach.

The sediment bowl does have a shut off but it does leak down into the carb. I checked the floats and they seem to be clean and in good shape.

The plugs never seem too wet but I do get some drips out of the carb.

Hal - how long of a belt do I need to hook these two tractors together? I assume I have to park them front to front and put a twist in the belt.
Thanks,
Dave

If it snaps just past TDC and you set your mag at the retard position the piston is probally to far down when firing causing lower compression

It should be long enough so there's plenty of clearance between the 2 tractors. Make sure you set the brake lever too on both tractors. Hal

It'll probably fire right off with the belt, just like towing. Still doesn't solve the real problem, which is why doesn't it fire with the crank?