Farmall 656...value?

Hey all,
Let"s just start out by saying that running a hay baler with an 8N is an exercise in futility.

Sooo, I"m looking for a tractor for my uncle. I ran into a Farmall 656 diesel that"s been sitting for a minimum of 5 years out in the weather. I neglected to look at the hourmeter. All of the sheetmetal is there and straight, the tires probably hold air and aren"t hopelessly dryrotted, there"s no water in the oil that I can see, the radiator holds water, and the shifter moves though all of the gears. I don"t know how to identify the Torque Amplifier model and a straight-shifted one, but I"m pretty sure it isn"t a hydro. The owner said he had it started last year, then someone stole the battery. Assuming that it in fact runs and has all of it"s gears and has somewhere between 5000-8000 hours on it, How much would it be worth? I don"t think the guy has a huge incentive to sell, and I"m not made of money, so some bargaining tips would be nice. The owner doesn"t farm, His father died and it hasn"t been used since.

Thanks for any input.

I"m in central Virginia, if that makes a difference in value.

*Edit* It's a diesel.

You should install a battery in it and see if it will run. If it will start take it for a drive and see how it drives. If it won't start, I would ask the owner what his lowest price is. If it sounds too high, walk away. If its a gas 263 cid engine you probably need to burn 93 octane
gas in it. Hal

Sorry, I didn't mention that it's a diesel. I do plan on carrying a battery over there and see if she'll fire. It's currently attached to a set of disks, that I'll have to disconnect. I guess I'll need to carry an air compressor, too.

If its a gas 263 cid engine you probably need to burn 93 octane
gas in it. Hal


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Why?

Here is my take on it If it is a gear drive and it is a diesel and it has been setting this long it may be a a good find then again it may be a night mare . If it is a hydro you may find problems that will break the bank to fix . A gear drive even if the low side to the T/A is out can still be used . You asked why you need to run High test gas in a gasser well well because the high test of today is on the bottom of the totom pole for the engine requierments of octane . Back when these old tractors were built all good grade regular gas was 95 octane and the high test of the era was 105+ now in todays world the best is 93 as because of the EPA engines have been de rated down since 1972 and by 1975 reg leaded gas was done away with and the day of the higher compression engines were dead and gone along with performance . The gas tractor era went the same way as by 1976 you could not by a big gas powered tractor . Just like today the new diesel fuel is starting to take it's toll on injection systems just like it did the last time they messed with the diesel fuel . So here again most people don't understand stuff like this they just want to do work with old equipment and when something starts to go wrong then here comes the what happened it was running fine and it did this or that and now it does not run anymore So if you are looking for and old tractor and you really do not know everything about them and you don't want to end up with a piece of junk that ya end up putting three times what ya paid for said tractor then by all means find a good old tractor mechanic to go with you and check things out even if ya have to pay the man a couple hundred bucks for his knolage . So that 656 you are looking at and with out us looking at it and running it it could be worthe 500 buck to 5000 bucks .It might cost ya 200 to get it up and running and it could cost ya 10000 to make it wright.

(quoted from post at 06:43:58 05/11/09) Just like today the new diesel fuel is starting to take it's toll on injection systems just like it did the last time they messed with the diesel fuel.

Click to expand...

Would you recommend running 500ppm sulfur diesel, and not the ULSD?

There's been a lot of hay baled with 8N Fords. If you think repair of his tractor is out of the question, and he otherwise gets along with an 8N, I would advise looking for an H, SH or 300. They are plenty big enough to pull a square baler and will never break the bank for repairs. And fuel consumption is not all that bad for mowing, raking, and baling. Plus, they think 87 octane is just a fine fuel. An M is not too big, but just uses more fuel. You can pay $2,000 for a semi-restored H and get a tractor which will serve him for many years, and look good at the same time.

The later tractors, from the early sixties are much more prone to cause you problems and take a real mechanic to fix. I can fix my own H or M. They also require better fuel. Compare a 1950 Dodge 1/2 ton flathead with a 1960's Super Bee and you get the picture.

I don't think there is anything actually wrong with the 8N, the baler is too big, I think. Also, the baler is partially hydraulic. Frankly, I have no idea how he pulled it off. I don't know much about baling.

Physically working on the tractor is where I'm comfortable. I've got a mid-70's JD 830 split in half with the countershaft out in my shop right now.

When the 656 came out it was using diesel that was around 5500 parts per million sulfur. Sulfur content for both on and off road had been cut to 500 (low sulfur diesel) parts per million and "newer" highway diesel engines are designed to run on Ultra Low Sulfur diesel about 15 parts per million. I would run 500 parts per million simply because of cost - but even that "high" amount isn't enough to satisify the lubricating needs of a 1960s (if it hasn't been replaced since the early 1990s) diesel injector pump that was designed and used for years with 5000+ parts per million diesel.

In 2010 all you'll be able to buy is ULSD for off road use anyway.


Here's John Deere's take on it.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/tractors/common_stories/ultra_low_sulfur_diesel_fuel.html#

Is there a suitable pour-in additive that is proven to increase lubricity?

What kind of baler does he have?

An 8N ain't much punkin, even compared with an H.

I don't work on tractos much because I only have M's and H's and they just don't break down if you keep oil in them and don't overload them.

The only thing I know is that it's a New Holland.

I might have mixed something up. Square balers don't require hydraulics, do they? I think he picked up a mower/conditioner and needs hydraulics to run that. In any case, him and his friend are working with a decent 8N and a 801 Powermaster that needs a rebuild.

Anyone have a David Brown 1200 engine that's any good? That would also solve this problem.

I'm not overly familiar with any as we've bitten the bullet and replaced several pumps that have failed and dealt with it as a cost of doing business. With several operators its too easy for one to miss a treatment (we're lucky they don't put gas in the tank). Biofuel is probably the best way to go if you can get it.

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/environment_sciences/report-13687.html


It isn't so much the lack of sulfur as it is the refining process used to remove it leaves the fuel very low in lubricants. It has been claimed that manufacturers are adding lubricants of their own hoping to avoid claims for fuel system failure but it is only to bring it back to the level they had at 500 parts per million. As I stated earlier diesel used to have over 5000 parts per million - they aren't trying for that level.

Update: The 656 has 4414 hours on it (if the hourmeter is correct).