806 injector pump removal

Through the site here I've narrowed down my problem on a leaky pump to the block side throttle shaft O ring and need to replace it.

I've tried to remove the pump before while trying to figure out where the leak was coming from. I disconnected the lines and the mounting bolts for the pump and it would pull out about 1.5 inches (or so) from the mount. Then it would hang up.

I didn't want to pry on it without knowing what I was doing, so I stopped and put it back together, needing the tractor that day.

Question is: how do I completely remove that thing so I can put the O ring in it to stop the leaking? Any information on taking the shaft out would really help, too.

Much appreciated, Bob

Well first off just what pump do you have ?? Do you have the Rossa Master ??? or do you have the RD pump. When i know this then we will go from there.

I assume you've got the Stanadyne/Roosamaster DBGFC pump?

I'm not an IH expert, but I've rebuilt many of those pumps for other tractor makes. Generally speaking, DBG type pumps that mount vertically have an internal o-ring to prevent you from pulling the shaft out of the pump (or pump off the shaft).

But, horizontally mounted DBG pumps don't have that internal ring and are supposed to slide right off while the shaft stays fastened to the tractor timing case. Later DB2 pumps DO have a lock ring.

It sounds to me like your's is supposed to slide right off - but - you've either got a wear ridge in the front bushing that your umbrella seals are catching on - or - your governor is falling apart and hanging up. You are supposed to tie the throttle lever back with a piece of wire at full-throttle position before pulling off. This puts tension on the governor and holds it together when pulled off the driveshaft.

I'll add that if you can pull it out an 1", you can also then rotate the pump a bit away from the block? If so, it ought to give you plenty of room to remove the two throttle-shaft halfs and install new o-rings and teflon wear rings.

This is the Roosamaster horizontally mounted (front to rear). I didn"t have the information about tieing the throttle back before. That may take care of it.

Would I be better off just pulling the pump out the inch and rotate it (which I know I can do) and work on it there or try to get it clear out?

Thanks again.

If all you plan to do is replace the throttle shaft o-rings, yes. All there is is two o-rings and two flat teflon washers. The teflon washers have nothing to do with sealing, they are just thrust washers. Throttle shaft is in two pieces and each half pulls out of the pump sideways. The two halves are held togeher inside the pump with a clip. Pay close attention to what it looks like before you pull it apart, so you can get it all back together. If not well aquainted with doing pump work, grab a digital camera and take a photo of the shafts and linkage - with the top cover off the pump - before you remove the shafts. One picture is often much more helpful than relying on imperfect memory ( I know mine is not perfect).

The shafts run though a yoke that operates the governor and you need to put everything back as you first found it.

Well Since ya already pulled it out part way and it is a Rossa .and ya did not tie the throttle lever back . Myself i would Never just try and stuff it back on . Ok first off What ya should have done is put a center punch mark on the timing cove and one on the pump housing for a reference point . Did ya clean up the out side of the pump BEFORE ya started pulling lines off ?? injection pumps do not like even the smallest amount of dirt . So i myself would remove that pump and take it in to a pump shop and have i gone thru , yes it is going to get into the piggy bank but NOW is the time to have the governor ring taken care of . and then ya won't be having a problem down the road. So Here is what ya need to do Remove all lines all linkage , next since ya don't know what you are doing remove the valve cover then remove the timing window on the right hand side of the bell housing and you will find a timing pointer under the cover use the cover bolts and put them in the timing pointer to hold it in place . With a pry bar turn the engine in direction of rotation till it comes up on 8 degrees BTDC then check and make sure that the intake and exhaust valves on #1 cylinder are loose if they are not then turn the engine over till they are and you are at the 8 degree mark . Next remove the cover on the ft. side of the ft gear case and look in there and you will see a nut and behind that nut there will be a washer . Next loosen the pump timing window and make sure that the timing marks inside the pump are lined up . Next loosen up the mounting bolts now remove the nut on the shaft and remove the washer and don't drop it . You will also notice three threaded bolt holes in the gear these holes are for a puller to push the pump shaft OUT OF THE GEAR . using a steering wheel puller and some good grade * bolts push the pump shaft out of the gear also watch that the key does not fall out of the pump shaft and fall into the timing case . It will take some fussen and fudding to get the pump past all the lines BUT it can be done . I know the book calls for removal of the exhaust manifold and all the injector lines But trust me i have pulled many with out . Some times it is better to have someone that knows these things on hand BEFORE ya get into trouble . I do not know where your from and can not help ya on finding a good pump shop BUT TRUST ME HERE TALK THAT PUMP in to a shop and have it gone thru. And get your self a I T MANUAL AND READ IT. It will be a big help . As the last thing ya want to do is screw up that engine as that engine is NOT FOR THE NOVICE to rebuild.

I can't thank the both of you enough. I believe I can get this thing taken care of now. This winter it was leaking diesel pretty good and I wanted to get it going before spring work, which is coming up fast.

Thanks again,

Really appreciate it, Bob

Why does the front timing gear have to be messed with? The few IH tractors I've worked on with horizontal Stanaydne pumps could have the pumps pulled and the shaft left attached to the engine - just like it's done on Deere, Ford, and AC tractors. I haven't worked specifically on any 806s, but with the other IHs, the pump could be removed in two different ways - with the shaft or without. I think IH recommended it be done with the shaft left in the pump since they didn't trust the common mechanic to put the shaft and umbrella seals back in properly. Fact is, it's not difficult along as some care is used.

There are no "umbrella" seals on an 806 Roosa Master pump shaft. The pump adaptor housing has two lip type seals in it, one facing each way. The only other seal in an O-ring. The pump drive shaft as well as the driven plate inside the pump are marked with a dimple. As long as the pump is reassembled back on the shaft with the marks aligned the ump will be in time with the camshaft.

When I remove the pump on an 806 I remove the the insulator bracket from the injection lines so that I can separate them enough to slide the pump back between them. You will most likely need to replace the insulator pads so that the line do not touch the metal of the bracket. Vibration will wear a hole in them if they are not kept from metal to metal contact.

If the throttle arm is not wired back when the pump is removed it is not a big deal. Just make sure that the ends of the governor lever are back in the slots of the bushing and wire the arm back as you go to install the pump.

Why do i do it this way is that you have a bit more work room and it is the way i do it . Then i can remove the extension housing and replace the seals . Hey i have my ways of of doing things maybe they are not by the book but come from years of working on 98% all I H . yes i worked ona few Deere and felt like i was fumbling thru and then there were the few plain old Cases and then we come to the off color ones from across the pond. And only three A/C's and if i never have to work on one of them again will be to soon. Aftr what i went thru on a hyd system on a 200 and the fight with the customer and him getting the pumps . So my expertize come largely from working on them everyday 6-7 days a week and more hours then most people would ever think of working . And when i was at the big sales if it was Red and White in the dead row and did not have a hole thru the block that ya could drive a truck thru it ended up in my shop and when it left it was go to the field ready and even field tested as if it did not suite me then it was not going to make somebody happy . There has been only two tractors that i was not proud of and both of them were bought buy good friend for me . One of them was a 1066 that i really plum did not like and i sold it as is for fifty bucks more then i had in just to get it off the lot only to have it come back to me as a good friend bought it with out me knowing he was buying THAT TRACTOR . Well that tractor ended up back in the shop and i totally went thru that tractor from the PTO thru the rad. cap . Tore it down to bare housings and started from there to a 1066 that is totally rebuilt and has served my friend well now for 13 years . But now i have to do some work on it as the cows got to some of the wires because they got thru a gate and to the tractor . So when i give advice here there is a method to my madness. It is called experience on I H tractors . We have a couple guy s on here that i would be proud to work with and have knowledge and years of experience . Some guys have learned there tractor and have had the same problems as the guy asking the question and they do a good job of helping , then there are the guys that have know idea what there doing and jump in with bad advice . Yep i have screwed up a couple times I knew what i wanted to say but i put it down in cyber space wrong. And the one thing that i will never do is tell a guy how to turn up a pump as it is like this he gets in there and oh ok if this much of a trun on the SCREW will make it do this then next weekend if i give it this much i can bet them other guys . And Saturday evening he blows the engine guess who he is going to blame and how he is going to bad mouth you because you told him how even though he went five more turns on a engine that was ready to cough it's cookies. Yes i can do pump work But i do not as if i am going to do a pump i want it on a stand and I want to see what the cc delivery is and what is happening and at what point. That is why i have a pump man that i can trust and does not rip me off or my customers.

Not sure how to reply to all that. Makes no difference to me how you want to do something.
But the guy was asking for advice.

Totally removing pump and shaft as a unit, timing cover, etc. when just replacing a few seals is a lot of extra work for nothing.

Sending a pump to a shop for a $300-$500 repair bill when all a pump needs is $15 in parts is a waste of money.

Installing a driveshaft into a Stanadyne pump is not very diffcult. Neiher is replacing a weight retainer ring on the governor or updating to the better EID style retainer. Neither is working on the injection pump and it does not require a pump stand to get right. Certainly IS necessary if you only have the pump in your hands and no engine to mount it on.

Fuel delivery can be accurately set with a 2" micrometer via roller to roller specs. Timing advance can be checked and set with use of a Standyne timing window that costs $5 - or with a standard timing light hooked to a Piezo pulse adapter.

"Umbrella seal" is a common term for the two lip seals on the Stanadyne driveshaft. One faces in towards the pump to keep fuel in, and the other faces the engine direction to seal against engine oil. They ride in either a steel or bronze bushing pressed into the front of the pump housing. That is, unless you're telling me that Stanadyne made something special that's only used on certain IH tractors and nothing else? I've worked hundreds of Stanadyne rotary DB and DB2 pumps for Deere, Allis Chalmers, Ford, Hercules, Oliver, General Motors, and a few other IH tractros and all used umbrella seals.

806 Stanadyne/Roosamaster pump is supposed to be a DBGFC637 with six variations of the same basic model. All take the same drivesshaft directional umbrella seals, according to my Stanadyne parts book and from all I've worked on over the past 40 years.

Stanaydne seal kit is # 24371 and comes with two umbrella seals for that pump.

Standyne umbrella seal compressor for installation is # 13371.

So, you've got me interested and perhaps confused. I started working in pump shops in the late 60s, and haven't seen a DB yet without these seals - but must admit I haven't seen them all.

So, what is it exactly you say is used in the 806 Stanadyne pump if not the standard Stanadyne umbrella shaft seals?

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Well ya do not have to remove the timing cover just the plate on the ft. I have the tools it is something i do not do just like i do not to starters or alt. Yes i can but i do not have the stuff for turning the armature i do not have the brushes springs diodes aor any of that stuff so with out tieing up money in stuff that i may or may not use i let the people that do this everyday do it . My time is better spent on other things . Rebuilding a carb is one thing . But the pump that is not for the normal guy and yes he is trying to save a buck put when he messes up then here again it becomes YOUR fault . You and i can do it BUt ou and i have done this for how many years and when we first started did you know how . The other thing here is that we have books that they do not and we learned from other people from either going to the schools or from and old timer aqand stood there looking over his shoulder . Now if ya wanted to run over to his place and show him the first time then the next time he would know . Myself i am not beyond taking a drive with in reason and helping someone out . As i get older i have no son to teach what i know and one day i will be gone and everything i know will be lost . Just like one guy i knew he was one of the best Oliver mechanic that worked for one dealer , This dealer did not only work on Olivers but what ever came thru the door and they got in a I H to work on and there one salesman knew me and asked if i would come up and fix this tractor after we got the labor rate ironed out i would go up and help and Kenny and i worked well together I was teachen him the I H's and he was teaching me the olivers , now am i as good as Kenny Nope Do you see me on the oliver board Nope . I know the old Fords I know the old MoPars and i know I H's That i am good on. Well anyway Kenny died from cancer and i can never ask him a question on a Oliver anymore .

Owen is correct as the pump does not fit directly on the timing cover as there is and adapter as the timing cover was org. made to take the RD pump and when the boys at the RD pump plant went on strike thinking that they had I H by the short hair as the RD pump was going to be the one pump for all I H diesel engines they figured that this would make I H bargin better by going on strike and causing I H production to come to a halt . Well I H just shut down the plant and started using Rossa masters then the Bosh pumps so the rossa pump came into play around 65 or so and I H offered anybody with the old RD pump a bargin basement price on a one time change over and they had that adapter and the shaft was in it along with the seals SO that is why it does not use the umbrella seals like most do. IF i knew how to post pictures i would run out to the farm and take pictures of my 806 as it was one of the changed over from a RD to a Rossa.Myself i liked the RD and as long as ya keep the ft bearing in good shape or replace it every so often then the RD will out preform the Rossa.

Deere went through the same thing but for different reasons - on certain tractors. Roosamaster made an oddball small round pump - called a model C. Then, mid 70s - discontinued all parts for it. So, Deere had to make a convoluted adapter kit to stick the older model DB pump on (like the IH uses).